Does the Queen actually *OWN* Canada?

Factual Questions
1

Yesterday I noticed that the wonderful new wall map of Canada included with my copy of Canadian Geographic (the 2000 annual; http://www.geographic.ca And only eight bucks! What a deal! Buy the magazine!) was marked “Copyright © 1999 Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada”.

I also know about Crown Land–that is land in Canada that is not owned by anyone else.

So… does the Queen, as the reigning monarch, actually formally OWN Canada? And if I buy Crown Land, am I ultimately buying it from her?

If Bill Clinton, say, were to apporach her with a few tens of billions of dollars and the support of his government, and say, “I want to buy Newfoundland,” does she have the power to ignore the will of the Canadian government and people, overrule Governor-General Poy (er, sorry, I mean Clarkson), overrule the Lieutenant-Governor of the province in question, say yes, and hand the territory over?

2

Her Majesty the Queen in Right of Canada is basically a legal fiction. It is through this legal person that the federal government owns stuff, sells stuff, buys stuff, contracts, etc.

I also don’t think that copyright in a map gives you any title to the land depicted on the map. :slight_smile:

http://members.xoom.com/labradorian/

3

A few points:

In name, the Queen probably does “own” Crown land. In practice, she is Queen of Canada only because the Canadians let her be Queen. All it takes is a vote on their part and that ends. She can not do anything to Canada that Canadians do not want to allow.

Land owned by the government is common. 80 to 90% of Nevada is owned by the US government. If a portion was sold to Canada or China, it would still be part of the US and US laws would apply.

You only “own” what the government recognizes that you own. If the government changes its mind, your ownership ends. [In the US, the constitution requires the government compensate you.] This happens all the time for things like building roads. One of the problems with relations with Cuba is that their government, after the revolution, took lots of property from Americans without compensation.

4

Canada, as most Commonwealth countries, has a government based on the British style. (A democratically elected Constitutional Monarchy)
Canadians “official” head of state is the Governor General, who is a representative of the Queen, but has no real decision making powers. This title is ceremonial with all decisions affecting Canada being made by the Federal and Provincial Governments. (Led by a Prime Minister and provincial Premiers respectively.) Crown lands primarily fall under Federal jurisdiction.

Wishing all you at the SDMB Happy Xmas and a GREAT 2000 and beyond!

5

No, Canadians’ real head of state is the Queen, who is represented by the GG, though for all practical and ceremonial purposes the GG does all the work of Head of State. Except of course when she’s out of town, in which case the Chief Justice takes over. And when she’s out of town, the Puisne Judges get to play GG, in order of precedence.

http://members.xoom.com/labradorian/

6

Crown lands fall primarily under PROVINCIAL jurisdiction, not federal.

Also, it would take a resolution of all the provincial legislatures, plus the federal parliament, to change the offices of the Queen, GG, and the provincial Lieutenant-Governors. There’s no provision at all for a “vote”.

http://members.xoom.com/labradorian/

7

If what starfish says is true:

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Land owned by the government is common. 80 to 90% of Nevada is owned by the US government. If a portion was sold to Canada or China, it would still be part of the US and US laws would apply.

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then did some other rules apply for the Louisiana purchase, the Gadsen purchase, Seward’s folly, etc.?

8

Christ! Not another thread in which someone can’t see the difference between the office of the monarch and the person of the monarch!

(& I’m betting that CK’s the first person to understand the pun above!)

9

It’s true that the queen doesn’t own Canada any more, but she still has an empire to run!. The countries she still owns include the Falkland Islands, Bermuda, Montesrrat, Gibraltar and the Solomon Islands. What she plans do do with them is unclear though.

10

Um, Bermuda and the Solomons are as independent as Canada is. The Solomons have a governor-general like we do. AFAIK, all the places you mentioned are at least Commonwealth members.

I don’t think we’ll be voting the Queen away anytime soon, though. Ms. Clarkson’s just too personable. And however I may feel about the monarchy, I’m too in love with the fact that Conrad Black has to call John Ralston Saul “Your Excellency”.

11

Beruang

The OP referred to Clinton “buying” part of Canada. I was just pointing out that simply buying the land would not make it part of the US.

As was demonstrated in 1812, if we claim land, and the other country does not cede it to us, you end up with a war.

Typically there will be a treaty between the two governments to transfer the land from one government to the other.

12

Damn, why do Canadians always pick on the Newfies?

13

In answer to the OP, yes, title to Crown lands that have been registered under the provincial titles system is in the name of “Her Majesty the Queen in right of [name of province or Canada],” depending on which government owns it. So, if you buy registered Crown land in say, Ontario, the transfer will likely read “From her Majesty the Queen in right of Ontario to Sunspace.”

But, you have to remember, as Monty so succinctly pointed out, that there is a difference between the Queen in her personal capacity, and the Queen as the Crown, formal head of the executive for Canada or a province.

If the Queen owns land in her personal capacity, bought with her own money, it is not “Crown land,” and it is not subject to political control. She can sell it or lease it just like any other land-holder.

On the other hand, if land is Crown land, owned by the Queen in right of a particular government, it is public land and can only be alienated pursuant to the laws of that government. The Queen would not be personally consulted, and would not have any say in the disposition of the land. Typically, a sale of Crown land requires an Order-in-Council (i.e. - an order of the provincial/federal cabinet), signed by the Minsiter responsible, counter-signed by the PM, and approved by the Lieutenant Governor/GG in the name of the Queen.

The other issue that has been discussed on this thread confuses the issue of property with sovereignty.

A nation is sovereign over its territory, but that does not mean the nation owns all the land civilly (except in the late unlamented USSR, Cuba, etc.). So, if you buy a piece of Crown land from the Queen in right of Canada, that does not mean it ceases to be part of Canada - merely that private ownership has passed.

On the other hand, at international law, a nation can cede sovereignty over a territory to another nation on whatever terms it sees fit. One common reason for cession is that it has lost control of the territory by military action (e.g. - Treaty of Paris, 1783 - U.K. ceded sovereignty over the 13 colonies).

But, a nation can also cede sovereignty for cold hard cash, and that is what happened when France decided to cede sovereignty over the Louisiana territory to the U.S.

However, in modern times, such a cession is highly unlikely without extensive political consultation, such as a plebescite amongst the inhabitants.

Finally, to end a long post, a short anecdote. About 11 years ago, there was a rumour floating about in New York that Princess Di was breaking up with Prince Chas. (they got that right), and was moving to N.Y. The rumour also said that the Queen supported the move, and had bought Di a condo in N.Y

Turned out that the rumour started because the Canadian goverment had bought a condo for one of its U.N. diplomats, and the title issued by the N.Y. titles office listed the owner as “Her Majesty the Queen in right of Canada.”