No, I’m saying that “Every Marine is a rifleman first” is different from “Any MOS you have is secondary to 0311(infantry),” which is what Sgt. J said.
0311 is a specific MOS classification. It is not the “default” for every Marine, from cooks to pilots to actual infantrymen. If it were, then every Marine would have gone through all of the same training that every 0311 has been through. This is not the case.
From the day I went in to the day I got out the refrain was the same “no matter what your job, every Marine is 0311 first.” I didn’t make it up, I’m just passing along what I was told for 8 years. You don’t have to believe it, and it might not be true, but if it’s not it’s news to every grunt I pounded dirt with. And for the record I was in an infantry unit (Tow Plt. HQ co. 23rd Marines).
If you want I can give you the adress. You can write them a letter and straighten them out. 
Then frankly, Sgt. J, you were being insulted. What they were saying is that everyone in the Corps was capable of doing your job without any additional training or experience. We both know that’s untrue – while any Marine may be capable of picking up a rifle and acquitting himself or herself honorably in combat, there is a difference between that and being an infantryman.
Do I think anyone realizes they were insulting the infantrymen of the Corps? No, I think they believed they were complimenting the others. But it’s still wrong.
Ah Ha! light dawning on Jarhead I can’t believe I haven’t seen this before. OK, this is my fault. I confused you with the 0311(infantry) bit. ANYTHING in the 03xx series is infantry. The 0311MOS IS “Rifleman”. Now is it making more sense?
Every Marine is a rifleman (0311) first. I paraphrased this poorly with “Any MOS you have is secondary to 0311”, but it does technically mean the same thing.
I wasn’t insulted, because my MOS was 3531(motor transport). In the infantry unit I did my Motor T duties (on the rare occasions we drove anywhere), then fell in as a (wait for it…)
Rifleman (0311) in the Infantry unit.
Okay, let’s clear this so I’m sure I understand.
The MOS designation for a guy in an infantry squad, with no other MOS qualifications or training, is 0311. True?
If so, has every other Marine received the same training as that guy who is only a 0311 and nothing else?
Damn, Stankow I told you before that there is no different boot camp, no different courses in the boot camp. Fact is I went thru officer’s training, but we were “maggots” just like the enlisted men and the camp was also 13 weeks. I will let Sgt. J fill you in to the further training for enlisted. For officers, they go to Quantico (with some pilots as an exception) and receive 6 more months of training, which has nothing to do with what MOS the officer will later have. All the time, not in class, is out in the field studying such things as map reading, lines of fire, etc.
In the Army, I can understand your pride in being 0311 and there is also a certain pride in the Corps for being an “03”. I personally never heard “0311” used the way you are using it. In this thread it has been mentioned that the Marine Corps has a certain function and in order to perform that function it has to be different from the Army. Much of our support comes from the Navy, so we don’t have as many MOSs. In order to perform our mission, we believe that “The Marine is the Corps, and the Corps is the Marine.” Every Marine depends on his fellow Marines and we do not have time or patience with any concept other than “Every Marine is a rifleman”. In case, you never noticed, we do not think the Army way is the best.
Rather than getting nasty about this, maybe I can word it in a way you may understand. All Marines are told they are riflemen and this places the rifleman in a special position. We all are “03” first, but only some of us are “03” all the time or even some of the time. We know that our job is to support those men and when needed we may have to drop what we’re doing and grab a rifle. Without the “grunt” the Corps does not exist and I don’t know how much more special you can get than that.
Does the “every Marine an infantryman” motto have anything to do with Marine pilots (or aviators or whatever you guys call them) wearing cammofladged flight helmets?
I just called my local recruiter. He said every Marine is 0311. This leads me to two conclusions.
Every Marine is 0311.
Every Marine THINKS we’re all 0311, but we’re all wrong.
This is how the recruiter explained it to me five minutes ago:
Yes, Marines who have no other specialty keep training in the infantry field at SOI after graduation, but were awarded the 0311 MOS after basic, along with everyone else.
Is this true? See 1 and 2 above.
Just for the record, I’m not discounting the possibility of #2 being the correct answer.
Army Infantryman (the Rifleman type) is 11B, not 0311.
Not in question. NEVER DISPUTED. I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH ANYTHING IN THE PREVIOUS STATEMENT.
I have never, at any time, said there was not a common core of training. However, this can be said of every service.
What I am saying is that for the statement “Every Marine is a 0311 first” to be true, then every Marine must have received the exact same training that a full-time 0311-MOS-holder has received.
**
I didn’t start it. Sgt. J started it. I’m just parroting back what he said and taking exception to it.
**
Yes, that’s why you’re Marines. You probably also don’t think the Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard, Public Health Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, Red Army, Royal Air Force, Royal Canadian Mounted Police or Dunkin’ Donuts Night Baker way is the best. Again, NOT IN DISPUTE. Take a look at some of my up-thread comments:
Please bear in mind that all of this is not intended in any way to disparage the fine men and women of the U.S. Marine Corps. I would stand with any of them at my back in a heartbeat. But they can’t win a war without the Army any more than the Army can win one without them, and suggesting that the two services are interchangeable is like saying we don’t need an Air Force because the Navy has planes.
I’m not arguing that Marines are highly trained. Nor am I arguing that they’d do well in combat even if they weren’t in a combat specialty.
The infantry has a proud and well-deserved heritage, as does the Marine Corps.
What have I said that is in any way disparaging of the United States Marine Corps or its way of life? I like Marines. Marines are, generally speaking, good people with a thankless job that do it anyway.
However:
**
Yes, the special position of “anyone else in the Corps is capable of doing your job PLUS their own.”
Once again, my thesis statement:
Saying “All Marines are 0311 first” is untrue unless the statement “All Marines have gone through all of the 0311 training” is true.
From what Sgt. J has said, the latter statement is untrue, rendering the former statement untrue, because non-0311 Marines AREN’T 0311 AT ALL, just like I’m not an 11B even though I’m a soldier and have gone through Basic Combat Training.
Do they receive a different MOS after SOI?
Jeez, I thought I asked a legitamate OP and this has almost turned into a BBQ thread–only more polite, knowledgable, and professional.
As I previously stated, I have no military background. Although when I was 16 years old I was recruited by West Point to play football and by Navy to play lacrosse. I didn’t go to either school but applied for the Marine PLC as a junior in a state college. I was told that my bad eyesight made me ‘not physically qualified’. Considering that this was just a few years after the service academy coaches were mailing me the applications and easy-to-fill-out Congressional appointment letters so I could play sports for them, I found this a little ironic. On top of that, in high school I was a National Merit Semi-finalist. The local OCS/PLC recruiting officer was drooling. Now, I’m starting a Ph.D.; I think the USMC missed out on me somehow.
But what’s the real debate going on here?
As a guy with no military experience I see this:
Infantry “grunts”, both Army and Marine, take special pride in what they do. They do the hardest job that there might be in life and it’s a job that not everyone can do. I’m glad; this is what my taxes pay for and we/US–in my case–need these guys.
Does the Army guy take exception to the Marine claim that EVERY Marine is a rifleman AS highly trained as the actual Marines that do infantry 24/7/365? I see his point. I have friends in the UMSC, both officer and enlisted, and I can’t imagine the logistics Marine being as competent as the guy who has been an infantryman since Basic/or OCS–even though they went through the same Basic training. After Basic, then what? All I know is that had I done the PLC, I would have had to do the 6 months at Quantico. Does the logistics guy shoot his rifle every day? I don’t know.
I would imagine a highly capable/trained Army infantryman taking issue with the fact that some Marine cook is just as good as a rifleman/infantry that he is when that’s his profession is understandable.
If I’m missing the point of the debate, I apologize.
Hmmm…
OKay, let’s make this simple:
In the US Army, once he finihes the Basic that is completed by EVERYONE, be he computer tech, tank driver, electrician, whatever, the soldier has to then get some more training BEFORE he is qualified as 11-B, gets the “rainbow ribbon” pinned on his chest and the crossed muskets on his lapel, and may be shipped out to C Co. 1st. Bn, Whateverth Division.
In the USMC, once he finishes the Basic that is completed by EVERYONE from computer tech to tank driver to whatever and gets his eagle-globe-anchor on his hat and lapel, IS that Marine ready to be shipped out as a 0311 to some MAU in the FMF? Is that the deal?
Now, if so I can see how that would make a LOT of sense. Marines being more likely to have very short or no “rear lines”, and be involved in a “fast and furious” spearhead of invasion, they WOULD want everyone right down to the computer geeks to be ready to fill any hole in the line seamlessly w/o wasting a whole month re-training them. The Army, under normal circumstances, has the luxury of separation of labor and of re-training – your enlistment/MOS selection contracts DO warn you that if the service needs it you may be pressed into the infantry. But as a 91Q Pharmacy technician, I was most certainly not qualified in MOS 11B. Oh, I could probably acquit myself decently defending the hospital perimeter, but I would be hardly useful in a frontline unit.
Here’s a simple solution to the question “Does every Marine have 0311 as his Primary MOS?” Look at the DD214 from a Marine who has a different MOS as his main job (the one for which he enlisted/reenlisted). I’m willing to lay better than even odds that said DD214 does not list 0311 as the Primary MOS.
So, should we confine this myth here or just open a new thread entitled “Myths People Believe About the Military and for which There is Absolutely No Proof That Said Myths are True?”
The term I know is:
“Every Marine is a Rifleman”
Not “first”, not “0311”, not “infantryman”, not “Grunt”. These last three are left to those in the job.
What are the BASIC qualifications to be a Rifleman? And do all Marines qualify?
Procifiency with the weapon? Check, annual ranges to keep current.
Knowledge of fireteam formations and hand and arm signals? Check, annual Basic Skills Test to reinforce.
Training in field life, digging fighting positions, defensive tactics, fire and manuever techniques, care of feet in marches, stripping and cleaning weapon, check, check, check.
Nowhere in my paperwork does it say 0311, but I left active service as an Air Defense Officer 10 years ago, and I could perform as a Rifleman tomorrow. I have been trained in the basic requirements for the job.
As for previous statements,
Is this new? Every pilot I know of went through TBS (the 6 months). Academy guys did not all go through OCS for some time, but if you were a new officer, you did your 6 months like everyone else. Except members of the Marine Band, which I understand does not go through normal Marine Corps training, which disturbs me greatly.
Recruiters lie for a living. Every Marine is not an 0311. IMO.
Except for it being a MEU these days (again) I would say “yes”. They do grunt school AFTER Basic. They will not be a Fire Team Leader, or the SAW gunner, but the Rifleman? Sure. 100% effective? Nope.
And keep in mind the school training a grunt gets pales in comparison to the training they get in the units, in the field. There will always be a difference between school-trained and actively practicing it. And the cook will be behind everyone else if thrown into a combat infantry unit, but that unit is better with him there than cooking.
Ah, getting back to the original question… yes, we do need the Marines because, as Trick, Tryck, Trik what’shisname, mentioned the fact that Marines do guard embassies as well. Let’s massage those words and say:
a. Marines have other important tasks for which they have been trained to do that other services do not provide [I speak from experience having been evacuated by the Marines during an army mutiny in Africa.]
b. The necessities for having armed forces vary with the situation [emergency, war, terrorist hunting, search/rescue, peace-keeping etc]. There should be specially trained sections of the armed forces with internal command as independent from the other services [I wouldn’t want the Army making administrative decisions for the Air Force because their expertise is different.]
c. Good morning Opal
d. EVERY organization has its Elmer Fudd’s, general fuck-ups and village idiots including the Army, Navy, Marines, public sector, private sector… that’s why we need watchdogs and disinterested auditors so that we can learn from mistakes.
I’ve never really been pro-military, but I now have lots of respect for the Marines; not only did they get a large community of Americans out of trouble - they took care of us while we waited at the military airport for our plane to take us out [they fed us, they had cots/blankets, they entertained a whole herd of young kids with camoflage make-up/glowsticks/their equipment, they helped a man who had a seizure, they had us out of there before the French got their folks out even tho they had a military base and air force in country…] I have heard similar stories of other evacuations even one by speed craft out to sea from the capital.
So this is my chance to say thanks to any Marines who might still be following this thread.
Cite? Or are just looking for a pitting?
Tranquilis, I certainly can’t agree with a blanket statement like UncleBill made, but I can put it this way: Recruiters sell their service for a living. That means that, in public at least, they have to buy into all the propaganda that their service dishes out, and add a little more to it.
Marine recruiters have found that their best two-word sales pitch is not “Technical training!” like the Air Force, or “College money!” like the Army, but “Hard fucking core!” So sure, if someone calls up and asks, “Are all Marines 0311 Infantry Bad Mamma Jammas?” their answer will be, “Damn right they are, and all Marines chew iron and shit nails, too!”
originally posted by Monty
Sure, and first person you can tell is the COMMANDANT OF THE MARINE CORPS, Gen. James L Jones who’s Guidance is quoted as follows:
http://www.usmc.mil/cmc/32cmc.nsf/cmcmain
The Marine Corps 0311 MOS is listed as “Rifleman”
You go to MCT before you go to MOS school, that’s why Marines say “we’re 0311 first…” Maybe it’s technically more appropriate to say “Rifleman” than 0311, but to a Marine it’s the same thing. The initial hijack here between me and stankow was his assertion
Since the Marine Rifleman is the heart of the Marine Infantry Unit and the Commandant Of The Marine Corps says MCT makes “every Marine a Rifleman”, I say * bullshit!*
UncleBill, The Marine Corps Band does go to bootcamp. One of the guys I went through basic with went to the Band.