Dog Behavior Advice, Plus "Identify This Dog Breed" Bonus Round!

[Lissa]

Polaris will be two years old in January. See that red spot on her nose? That’s from trying to “bury” her food using the carpet below her bowl.

It’s the most bizarre thing I’ve ever seen. I know dogs have a burying instinct, but with her, it seems almost like a compulsion. I can’t stop her. She’s so intent on burying her food that she will ignore even the harshest, “NO!” I can muster, and if I pull her away, she’ll go right back to it, drawn like a moth to a flame.

It doesn’t seem to be posessiveness, because she and her little "brother, "Sirius will eat simultaneously from the same bowl with no qualms. (Usually, they take turns, grabbing a mouthful and then walking away to chew it while the next dog goes and gets its bite. It’s pretty amazing correography.)

I’ve tried giving her a bowl of her own, and that didn’t stop the behavior. The pain of scraping her nose bloody won’t stop it. Sometimes, she uses her water, which saves wear and tear on the snout, but makes a helluva mess. (I bought a rubber mat to put under it because, I tell you, she cannot be stopped. Short of beating the dog, I don’t know what to do. She completely ignores any attempted correction: a shot from a water pistol, a loud, alarming noise caused by a can of pennies thrown next to her . . . I think if The Bomb went off, she’d still be standing there, intent on burying her food in the rubble.

Any advice?

Now, on to the Bonus Round:

After I first got her, I asked if you Dopers could identify what breed(s) she might be. I was told to wait until she was fully grown before anyone could hazzard a guess. (Even my vet professes himself stumped.) We got her at the pound from a litter abandoned right after birth-- the staff never got to ask the owner or see the mother.

She weighs about 45 lbs, has green eyes, and a reddish-blond coat. The hair kinks up when it gets wet, like there may have been some sort of poodle in her family tree.

Here is a full-length shot of her on the futon (with Sirius using her as a pillow.) This is a shot of her standing. (Note how her tail curls up over her back like an Elkhound’s.)

What the hell is this mutt?

[SnakesCatLady]

She is a beauty! I’m not by any means an animal expert, but something in the set of her ears in that full face shot makes me think maybe there’s some Golden Retriever in her family background. The other shot seems to show a much longer muzzle, though.

I’m stumped. It’s much easier with cat, where you usually just say “It’s a cat!”

although having a coal black female give birth to a litter of solid white kittens that started developing “points” within days can start you believing yourself when you say “I swear that hussy sounds like a Siamese in heat!”.

[porcupine]

Looks kind of like a Nova Scotia Duck Tollling Retreiver. I doubt she actually is, though, cause it’s a rare breed. The tail is supposed to fall below the top-line, but some pics I found on-line have a curlier tail.

I have a friend who has golden retrievers for field work, and they are much smaller, curlier, and redder than the fluffy show-bred goldens.

Re: the burying problem: are you free-feeding? If so, why not pick the dish up when the dog isn’t actually eating?

[Wile_E]

Yeah, looks like some Golden Retriever in there. I had Goldens and they would sometimes hold their tails so they would curl up over their backs.

As for the behavior, it’s possible she could have OCD. The only solution may be medical. Ask your vet.

[Tortuga]

Aussie Shepherd and Golden Retriever (or Chesapeake Bay Retriever? Ya never know…)

Have you tried hand feeding?

Separate their portions and hand feed the dogs a kibble or so at a time. You can practice sit and down and other tricks at the same time, and it builds a bond and reinforces you as pack leader and Boss of the Food.

I know it seems like a PITA, but the hard food and routine can be good for them–if they’re used to free-feeding they might be resistant to the change from the usual at first and then they get hungry. You also see exactly how much they’re eating every day instead of just an empty bowl that gets refilled and how they’re appetite is, and feeding plain dry kibble is better for their teeth and gums.

Good luck, they’re cuties!

[Wile_E]

@Wile E

Yeah, looks like some Golden Retriever in there. I had Goldens and they would sometimes hold their tails so they would curl up over their backs.

As for the behavior, it’s possible she could have OCD. The only solution may be medical. Ask your vet.

Heh, I didn’t intend to type “only” solution.

[picunurse]

@Snakescatlady

She is a beauty! I’m not by any means an animal expert, but something in the set of her ears in that full face shot makes me think maybe there’s some Golden Retriever in her family background. The other shot seems to show a much longer muzzle, though.

I’m stumped. It’s much easier with cat, where you usually just say “It’s a cat!”

although having a coal black female give birth to a litter of solid white kittens that started developing “points” within days can start you believing yourself when you say “I swear that hussy sounds like a Siamese in heat!”.

Black is often the “back coat” or back gene for Siamese. If a Siamese breeds with any other color, the kittens are most likely to be black and/or pointed. When those black kittens breed, they often produce pointed kits.
My black female came from a Birman momma. When my girl had (6 count 'em SIX) kittens, three were black and three were pointed.
Now, back to your regularly scheduled thread,

[romansperson]

Agree with making a set feeding time for her if you are free feeding. When the food is gone, the bowl comes up.

Also, I’d talk to my vet about this behavior. It does sound like doggie OCD and there are meds for it. Try a med for a month and see if it helps. If it does, you may with time be able to taper off the med.

As for the Bonus Round, I agree that there must be some Golden in there, maybe with some smaller curly-tailed breed, like an American Eskimo.

[auRa]

@porcupine

Looks kind of like a Nova Scotia Duck Tollling Retreiver. I doubt she actually is, though, cause it’s a rare breed. The tail is supposed to fall below the top-line, but some pics I found on-line have a curlier tail.

Nova Scotia was what came into my mind, too. These last few years, I’ve noticed them more and more frequently here in Helsinki; the coat color is quite distinctive. Definitely some kind of retriever in there.

[yBeayf]

It does sound like OCD.

While you’re seeking a treatment, would it be possible to indulge her compulsion to bury? You could get a large litterbox, fill it with some sort of nontoxic / edible filling material like Swheat Scoop or peanut shells or something, and put her food bowl in the middle of it. That way she at least wouldn’t rub her nose raw on the carpet.

[Tupug_Anachi]

My bet is an Aussie mix, too. Take a look at these photos for an ear, coat and tail comparison. She look’s an awful lot like my daughter’s Aussie mix.

The other clue is the singlemindedness of her behavior. IMHO very much a trait of a herding breed.

Good luck with that, by the way.

[Athena]

I’d say if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em and make an area where your pooch can “bury” her food. I’m thinking something like a long, low plastic bin, like the ones sold for under-bed storage, filled with those cornstarch packing peanuts or something else dog-safe and cheap (kitty litter? sand?).

See if you can train her to bury her food there. Clean it out every week or so - shouldn’t be stinky or anything as long as it’s just dry food.

[davenportavenger]

@Athena

I’d say if you can’t beat 'em, join 'em and make an area where your pooch can “bury” her food. I’m thinking something like a long, low plastic bin, like the ones sold for under-bed storage, filled with those cornstarch packing peanuts or something else dog-safe and cheap (kitty litter? sand?).

Exactly. Burying things isn’t a “compulsion,” it’s instinct. Maybe some dogs display this instinct more than others, but that doesn’t make it wrong. Give the dog a soft place to bury so she won’t hurt her nose and train her to use it. Geez-oy, all these people trying to drug animals so they don’t do perfectly animal-like things.

Also, is it possible that there is a dead mouse or other smelly thing in the floorboards underneath her food dish that you can’t detect? Maybe she’s trying to get at it.

[romansperson]

@davenportavenger

Exactly. Burying things isn’t a “compulsion,” it’s instinct. Maybe some dogs display this instinct more than others, but that doesn’t make it wrong. Give the dog a soft place to bury so she won’t hurt her nose and train her to use it. Geez-oy, all these people trying to drug animals so they don’t do perfectly animal-like things.

It’s not a normal behavior when the dog does it to the point they injure themselves. That’s what makes it compulsive.

[Wile_E]

@romansperson

It’s not a normal behavior when the dog does it to the point they injure themselves. That’s what makes it compulsive.

I was going to say that.

Anyway, the dog may not need drugs but she should still talk to her vet. There is training and behavior modification to try. If all else fails and the dog continues to injure itself then it may be time to try medications.

Often OCD behaviors are brought on by stress or boredom. You may not think your dog is stressed but it may be. Does your dog have separation anxiety? Also the more intelligent the dog the more likely it is to be bored. If it’s got Aussie and Golden in it then it may need a lot of activity to keep it from getting bored.

It’s all too much to cover on a message board. Talk to your vet, if they are not up to date on behavior problems perhaps they can refer you to someone who can help. Now it may only be a little sore on the nose but it could become worse if ignored.

[romansperson]

@Wile E

There is training and behavior modification to try.

Yes. In my experience, meds are used when the dog is so focused on the abnormal behavior that it ignores any attempt by its owner to stop or redirect it, and it sounds like that’s where this dog is. The point of the med is to help the dog to calm down enough that training and behavior modification can be done. Meds are a tool, not a crutch.

[Lissa]

@Wile E

Often OCD behaviors are brought on by stress or boredom. You may not think your dog is stressed but it may be. Does your dog have separation anxiety? Also the more intelligent the dog the more likely it is to be bored. If it’s got Aussie and Golden in it then it may need a lot of activity to keep it from getting bored.

She has a lot of “issues.” She was taken from her mother and litter way too young-- we adopted her at about five weeks old. (She didn’t even know how to drink water! I had to give it to her with a needleless syringe.)

She was very sick when we first got her, so it was a while before I was able to take her out for the socialization she desperately needed. I took her to Doggy Day Care so she could get the experience of being around other dogs and to Puppy Kindergarten for training so she could get used to other people, but for a dog who missed so many crucial life-lessons, there’s only so much which can be done.

Don’t get me wrong-- she’s made great progress. She’s a bit skittish around strangers, but friendly once she’s comfortable with them, and she’s very friendly towards other dogs. She has a nervous temperment, but I think it will mellow with age.

Her seperation anxiety was greatly eased when we got her “brother,” Sirius. (Bean wasn’t much help. I love her, but she’s a grumpy old bitch.) Having Sirius around seems to really help Polaris. If he’s there, she doesn’t cry if we leave. The two of them play, and curl up together to nap.

Bean is the reason why I can’t stop the free-feeding. She’s been free-fed since she was a pup, and she’s an astoundingly stubborn dog. If her bowl is moved or changed, she’ll refuse to eat or drink. (She once refused water for three days because we gave her a new bowl. If we hadn’t caved, I think she might have actually died of dehydration rather than drink from the new bowl.) She’s getting a bit bony in her old age, and I don’t want to do anything that would interrupt her feeding, and since the other dogs eat from the same bowl-- well, you see my problem.

The “sandbox” is a good idea. I’ll look into that.