I have three dogs, all getting old and all with a variety of long term health problems. a year ago I moved to a tiny town and haven’t had good experiences with the local vets, so I’ve been driving 90 minutes each way to take them back to the vet in our previous town.
the youngest’s problem is her urine Ph tends to go up too high. then crystals form and at some point she gets an infection. the vet has been treating this for years with food: science diet CD and SD. (and antibiotics) she tells me dilute urine is better so I give her food in water, kind of soup, and then every 60 or 90 days she gets tested. the vet takes a sample of her urine with a needle in her bladder.
for years this has worked, lately it just isn’t. the vet says she has done everything short of surgery to figure out what is wrong & just figures “some dogs do this” and that meds for Ph are something she has not had good results from, that’s why she uses diet instead. I tried adding cranberry supplement and it didn’t help.
I am wanting another opinion and have suggestions of two vets, both far enough away to make it a major trip to get there. I am probably going to pick one at random and give them a try. I beg your collective pardons if this is too long/unclear/in the wrong forum: I’m short of sleep. I suspect there may be no good answer, here.
I’d take this to a good dog health forum where someone is likely to have experienced the same thing. One thing you might try is a different diet. But I’m not a Science Diet fan.
I’ve been familiar with the company for a long time. They give a lot of money to vet schools and create ways for vets to make money on their products. I don’t think vets should be selling “prescription” foods. My Dr might recommend diet changes, but he isn’t going to offer me a display of products for sale. Food isn’t a drug. Plus, when you look at the SD labels, there is no justification for the prices. It reminds me of an MLM.
Actually you are incorrect. Hill’s Pet-foods include both over the counter as well as prescription foods. Diets such as S/D are not available without a prescription.
my understanding is that both the CD and the SD are prescription food.
the SD does lower her urine Ph but used to do so if I fed her that one week out of 4, now 1 week out of 3 isn’t enough and the SD is not meant to be fed long term.
I will be seeing the vet this weekend, just hoped to get suggestions.
Hi – this is Lori and I work for Hill’s. JackieLikesVariety, sounds like you have been logging a lot of miles! So sorry your youngest is continuing to have this issue. Has your vet said it is the same type of crystals now that she’s had previously? Hill’s offers a free veterinary consultation service for veterinarians. Your vet is more than welcome to call us and discuss your dog’s condition. To reach this service, the number is 1-800-445-5777.
A little bit about c/d and s/d - these are Prescription Diet foods that address urinary tract health. These foods are available only through a veterinarian for a very good reason. There are different kinds of stones and crystals that dogs can develop based on several factors. Age, breed, and diet are only some of those factors. Treatment of the different stones requires the advice and supervision of a veterinarian who knows the medical condition of the dog.
With regard to Hill’s relationship with the veterinary profession, Hill’s is a company born of a veterinarian’s vision over 70 years ago We have maintained a strong, respectable bond with the veterinary profession from the start. While we are a company of veterinarians working with veterinarians, we want to be clear that Hill’s never pays veterinarians to recommend our pet foods.
I wish you the best with your dog and this situation!
Vet here. Actually, it is the infection with a urease producing bacteria that leads to the higher pH, not the other way around. A dog that just happens to have alkaline urine does NOT develop infection because of the urine pH. The urine pH can, however, be high because of infection. I hope this is clear. Crystals are not pathologic in dogs. Crystals form due to pH. Unless your dog is forming stones, then crystals are not an issue.
It seems to me the issue to address is why your dog keeps getting urinary tract infections. Has your vet taken a bladder x-ray to look for stones? Has your vet done blood work to check kidney function? Has your vet recommended ultrasound to evaluate the kidneys, ureters, and bladder? Does your dog have a tucked vulva that pools urine? Is your dog obese, making it harder for her to completely empty her bladder (due to the fat folds tucking up her vulva)? Does your dog have an underlying endocrine disease, such as hypothyroidism, Cushing’s Disease, or Diabetes (mellitus OR insipidus)?
These are the issues I would ask your vet to address, or to refer you to someone who can. There is no food that will prevent struvite stones in dogs (and that is the kind that form in high pH).
I know the vet has done ultrasound regularly and blood work recently.
if I am understanding the vet correctly, she believes the dog is getting infections when the crystals form (no stones so far that we know of) and injure the inside of her bladder. and the crystals form because the Ph goes up (and we don’t know why the Ph goes up).
for years now, the c/d and s/d combination was keeping the Ph down and her urine was fine, usually.
Frilly Nettles, I am writing down what you said and will bring it to my appointment. thanks for your help.
Lori who works for Hill’s, how often can I dog be on s/d and stay healthy? if it was every other week is that too much? my vet does not have the answer, she just said that s/d wasn’t meant to be long term as it is not complete nutrition.
This is not how it works. Crystals do not “injure” the bladder. However, stones can. IF the dog has an infection, THAT is what makes the pH go up.
Has your veterinarian done a urine culture with sensitivity to find out exactly what bacteria are growing and exactly which antibiotic to use? Has your dog been kept on antibiotics long enough to clear infection? Is the urine recultured after antibiotics? It is possible that the infection has never truly been cleared up.
Do some believe there are really prescription dog foods? "Prescription just means that manufacturers and distributors won’t sell that food other than through a vet. There is no law, it is purely a business device. Food is not a drug.
ps - I asked earlier whether the OP had a cat because getting into and digesting cat littler is often a cause of this problem. I would also look at whether the dog could be consuming anything else other than his regular food, including human foods being given by the humans.
What? You want me to provide a citation that there is no law about where dog foods are sold and requiring a prescription? You want “me” to prove the negative? I think it is incumbent upon you to cite a law for us if you believe there is one.
Why all know why the word prescription is used, to create a justification for higher price. Place a call to the FDA and ask them if they regard any dog foods as drugs, or if there is any law or regulation that requires a prescription. This is a ridiculous thing to argue about, you can’t even get a vet that sells the stuff to claim that the law requires a prescription because they know how false that would be. Why don’t you ask your vet, and ask him about the cat litter while you’re at it.
Each case is unique for how feeding Prescription Diet® s/d is managed. Since your veterinarian is uncertain, we have a free vet to vet consultation service that your vet is welcome to contact for advice. Could your vet call us at 1-800-445-5777 and ask to have a consult about your dog? Sorry, that may seem like a hassle but it’s a good idea to get the two doctors together so they can talk about your dog’s medical history and determine how to manage it going forward.
There are some questions and comments on this forum about why “prescription” is used in our brand. No these foods are not pharmaceutical. We don’t claim them to be. But, just as with Prescription Diet s/d, it requires the veterinary knowledge of health management for certain medical conditions and the appropriate Prescription Diet food to address it. Our Prescription Diet foods are nutritionally designed to address those conditions.
With regard to Hill’s relationship with the veterinary profession, Hill’s is a company born of a veterinarian’s vision over 70 years ago. We have maintained a strong, respectable bond with the veterinary profession from the start - one that is based on science and understanding pet health. While we are a company of veterinarians working with veterinarians, we want to be clear that Hill’s never pays veterinarians to recommend our pet foods.
