Dog has pancreatitis - need advice. TMI doggy wise.

[Pullet]

@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast

alice_in_wonderland your parent’s dog must have had some kind of genetic superness - renal insufficiency requires a high protein diet (though some may argue). What is necessary are low phosphate foods - and curiously, avocado can actually cause kidney disease and renal failure in dogs. Most of what is in the Campbell’s soup would have been on the list of Foods To Not Have, even aside from the high salt content - but hey, dogs continue to amaze.

<Veterinarian hat>

This is wrong.

Animals and humans in kidney failure required low protein diets because the kidneys are responsible for excreting the nitrogen containing compounds that result from protein metabolism, so when the kidneys are failing, they can’t get rid of these toxic compounds like they are supposed to.

Cite
Cite
Cite

Yes, controlling certain other electrolytes is also useful, but not necessarily required. Depends on the severity of the disease.

Avocado can sometimes cause vomiting and diarrhea in dogs. I suppose, in cases of extreme GI upset that lead to dehydration, this could secondarily lead to a pre-renal azotemia and possible renal failure, but that is a stretch. As far as current science is aware, Avocados do not directly cause renal failure in dogs.

Acorns:
As CrazyCatLady mentioned, the standard treatment for pancreatitis, particularly pancreatitis that has gone on for several days in a pet that continues to vomit, is hospitalization for IV fluids, anti-nausea drugs, antacid drugs, and various other supportive care. Exactly how long to keep them without food is debatable, but the large majority of veterinarians will agree that you won’t get control of the disease without control of the vomiting. Sometimes, we can get away with home treatment, but those are only in the very mildest of cases.

In my professional opinion, you need to go to your vet and have a serious discussion about hospitalizing Sparky for aggressive care. Today.

</Veterinarian hat>

Also, the wonderful thing about the Straight Dope is that there are very many knowledgeable, professional people in many fields. If you have specific veterinary questions, feel free to PM me and I’ll send you my credentials. There are also a couple other veterinarians haunting here who, I’m sure, would be happy to weigh in with opinions (as much as we are able without specifically seeing your pet). I’ll gladly pass their names along in a PM if you’d rather talk to someone who isn’t me.

Cheers, and best wishes to you and Sparky.

[Surly_Chick]

How’s Sparky doing today?

[Khadaji]

My girl had it a couple of weeks ago. She didn’t eat one morning, which is a huge red flag with her. I took her to the vet and he said pancreatitis. He claims she likely got it from eating trash, but don’t see how. She is rarely out of my sight, she only eats what I give her (she won’t even eat off my plate if I set it down and turn my back) and I have only seen her in the trash bin once (I had just thrown away a pound of bacon that I was unsure of.) When I yelled at her for that she sulked behind the couch for four hours and wouldn’t eat until I made up with her.

In any case, the vet gave her some pills and in a few days she was herself again.

Best wishes to Sparky!

[Acorns.but_not_Bacon]

Thank you for being very kind and helpful, I really appreciate it.

Things today are a bit more confused.

He has just been to the vet and this time it was someone else who looked at him, actually I think it’s been three sepreate vets for each visit…anyway, they’re doing another blood test and another urine test so we have to wait for a bit til we know what’s wrong, reason for test is it could be diabetes, the previous tests didn’t show this but could have been wrong. Also they may have to do a X-Ray to actually see what’s going on in his stomach, the vet said he should have been eating by now. So they’re now veering away from the pancreatitis diagnosis.

So yeah…that’s so far.

Not much progress today I’m afraid.

[Acorns.but_not_Bacon]

Sorry for double post.

The vet just rang and the blood tests show everything has improved, his glucose is normal, his blood cell count is normal, they’re still going with pancreatitis for now, in a few days he may have a x-ray and if that shows nothing and if he hasn’t eaten in a few days, he will be taken in for what others on here have said IV and pain relief.

So today, we’ll put the bicarb of soda in his water, which is also what the vet suggested, to calm his stomach then wait to see if he eats something.

[Surly_Chick]

Poor Sparky! I’m surprised they haven’t done an x-ray already to make sure there’s no obstruction.

Thinking happy, healthy dog thoughts for you and Sparky.

[Notchimine]

It is good that the tests look okay. It is a slow process and it sounds like you’re doing everything you can. Keep positive.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

**AbnB **it’ll undoubtedly be sorted soon; and in the meantime, as I’m sure the vet has mentioned, a few days without food is okay as long as Sparky is still getting his fluids. Keep in mind that the good thing is that he is under veterinary care, so definitive answers will come.

Pullet, I certainly don’t question your qualifications, and I am not a vet. However, I do disagree with the low protein diet for renal insufficiency. (Told ya someone would, lol!)

It seems that the assumption that high protein diets are harmful to kidneys may be because low protein = low nitrogen. Digestible protein is important for a dog with renal insufficiency; I have managed a protein diet for my Dalmatian who was diagnosed aged 8. Last week she turned 13 - with no arthritis, vision or hearing failures, maintains a stable 30kg, walks 3km a day and can still chase cats.

Cite

[Surly_Chick]

Any Sparky news?

[Pullet]

@6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast

Pullet, I certainly don’t question your qualifications, and I am not a vet. However, I do disagree with the low protein diet for renal insufficiency. (Told ya someone would, lol!)

It seems that the assumption that high protein diets are harmful to kidneys may be because low protein = low nitrogen. Digestible protein is important for a dog with renal insufficiency; I have managed a protein diet for my Dalmatian who was diagnosed aged 8. Last week she turned 13 - with no arthritis, vision or hearing failures, maintains a stable 30kg, walks 3km a day and can still chase cats.

Cite

Sorry, but one synopsis of two studies from what I can only assume is the late 1980’s is not going to overturn the volumes of information I’ve read to the contrary. Neither is your anecdotal case.

[6ImpossibleThingsB4Breakfast]

Surely Pullet you don’t think my post was an attempt to change your professional opinion. The cite was merely the easiest example I could find quickly. Although my vet certainly holds a differing opinion to yours, I was simply sharing my personal experience to offer a broader perspective with no disrespect intended.

[Acorns.but_not_Bacon]

@Surly_Chick

Any Sparky news?

Well, a few days ago my mother was worried because he took a while to come to from sleeping, his body was very stiff and to quote my mum he looked like he had died overnight but he was just weak, later on in the day he ate the food he was supposed to and didn’t throw up atall.

Yesterday though he was very sick, this is going to be totally gross information - when he threw up it was not anything which he had been eating these past two weeks, it was a whole clementine and a ball of hair…

so we were wondring whether this is what was causing the problem in the first place?

He’s going to the vet again next week for a check up.

[Surly_Chick]

I’m really surprised they haven’t done an x-ray at this point. Clearly, he has stuff in his tummy that’s not supposed to be there! If you can afford it, I would ask to have one done.

[CrazyCatLady]

Your dog has been puking for over a week, and their recommendation is bicarb in his water and waiting to see what happens? For the love of all that is holy, find yourself another vet. This nimrods are liable to wait and see your dog to death.

[PunditLisa]

A whole clementine? As in an unpeeled orange? I’m with the other folks who recommend changing vets. He should be on the mend by now.

[Acorns.but_not_Bacon]

A clementine is a small, slightly squishier sweeter version of an orange and yeah it was unpeeled. I’m wondering where he got it from, my niece who’s three eats a lot as they’re easy peelers so she may have left one lying around the place. I’ll have to ask my mum about changing vets and the possibilty of it, I agree he should be better by now, definitely think they’ll go ahead with the X Ray and as for cost of it the vet is ok with payment plans and spreading out over the months. I think the majority of vets nowadays are ok with doing that actually.

We won’t wait for the check up date, will take him when have the chance as we are v worried.

[Surly_Chick]

Seriously, I would go to a different vet this time. Your local shelter should be able to recommend a good one.

[Ellen_Cherry]

It seems clear to me that acorns needs to take the advice of an animal medical professional who has seen her dog. No one here can really diagnose him without seeing him.

Plenty of anecdotal, and professional information, has been shared. I am going to close this thread now.

Good luck to Sparky.

Ellen Cherry
IMHO Moderator

[samclem]

After much discussion, the consensus is to reopen the thread.

samclem Moderator

[Acorns.but_not_Bacon]

Thanks for the reopen.

It’s bad news, he’s become much worse, it’s obviously no longer pancreatitis. He has lost eight pounds and is thinner than before. He can still eat little bits but he’s started shaking again and has his tail down, he looks so ill, worse than before, he’s still throwing up. He’s been very grumpy, trying to bite the vet when examined and also there’s aggression which the vet says is understandable with him being in pain and having people keep touching him and prodding, so doing an x ray and the resulting care of IV Drips and being in the vets constant care around strangers that he would try to bite or snap at would be impossible. With us he’s ok aggression wise but at the vet’s he’s really grumpy and snappy and growly, basically.

Right now, he sleeps a lot, not much energy and when he walks it’s with his tail and head down

The vet has booked an appointment for euthanasia.
So yeah. Thanks for reading and for all the help that we recieved in this thread. It did help:).