Any one of you agree with the rankings?
I would imagine that if you need a police dog, herding dog or a guide dog it would matter. However, if it is a pet, that is below average obedience intelligence mean a harder time in training and make them harder to control?
I have two dogs, a Border Collie and a Min-Pin. Based on my dogs, I’d disagree with the Border Collie rating as smartest. Mine’s pretty smart, but I wouldn’t rate him as the smartest dog (breed) I’ve ever owned.
They also rate the Min-Pins as above average working dogs. I’d rate them as smart, but extremely difficult to train.
Just my opinion(s), but I’d put Aussie Shepherds at the top of both lists. I do however, agree with their opinion that Pekingese are dumb and useless (I had one of those many years ago).
I have problems with using the term intelligence when training dogs. It’s about as silly as defining a dog’s age in human years.
Dogs are a different species and an ‘intelligence test’ for dogs is really what we think an intelligent dog should know. Dogs brains are different that ours and they process information differently than we do. What we may see as stupid, such as a dog not being able to figure out how to untangle a leash, or chasing a rabbit and stopping to pee and continuing to chase the rabbit in simple terms means their brain works differently.
That’s more pronounced depending on the breed. If you have scent hounds like a blood hound or a beagle, they don’t do well with tests regarding visual clues. If you pick out a dog that’s pretty single minded, you might not consider it intelligent if you want the dog to focus on other tasks.
My father used to always say if you want to train a dog you have to have more brains than the dog. A trainer here will probably tell you that they spend more of their time training people what to do than they do training the dog, so it’s probably more important to have an intelligent person than worry about how smart a dog is.
I agree with that.
My dog’s been in obedience school for 4.5 years now (we’re to the point that we just do it for fun - really, she’s not stupid!) and we’ve seen a lot of different dogs and breeds, including mutts.
The trainer is very good. She is good at teaching people how to control their pets and getting their pets to respond. I can’t think of one dog, out of probably 40 that we’ve been with, that was exceptionally smart or stupid. Rather, it was VERY obvious who put time in with their dogs and who didn’t.
Dogs are smart in different ways. You might think my golden retriever (4th on the list) was stupid if you saw her respond to my recall by running away from me. She’s not stupid - she’s manipulating me. She knows exactly how to come when called. She also knows exactly what she can get away with and that is what she chooses to do when she’s trying to piss me off.
My dad likes to call my brother’s dalmation/beagle/boxer mix smart - smarter than my golden. I like to say she listens better than Dolly does because she’s not as smart as Dolly - she has no free will. While Dolly has us all figured out 
I don’t have an answer for you, but I find it amusing that Afghan Hounds came in dead last and that was the breed supposedly cloned!
Well I started this discussion in the other thread I guess.
I do not own a Border Collie, but I did. They are exceptionally smart and better problem solvers than any other dog I have seen. They have been bred for intelligence and very few dogs have. They are very trainable on top of everything else.
I have a Labby Mutt, she did extremely well in the beginners class, but she is like most labbies, nit as smart as most Border Collies or Aussies.
I have no experience with Poodles. I have always heard they were very bright, especially the standard Poodles.
Here is my post in the other thread with links to some online information.
Jim
Do NOT get a Border Collie unless you want either a working dog or are willing to put in time and exercise every day. An idle border collie will turn into a nervous wreck in days. They are working dogs, bred to perform difficult tasks every day. They need something to do.
That said, they are smart dogs, for that very reason. They are bred to move sheep around, and sheep can do the most frustrating things for no reason whatsoever. You think a stupid dog can keep track of a herd of spooked sheep going any which way?
You need to look at what tasks the dog was bred for to judge intelligence properly. For example:
Herding dog: problem solving, grasping difficult situasions quickly.
Alarm dog: noise, plain and simple.
See where the brains go?
Good points. Border Collie’s are more of a sight dog than a scent dog and are good at processing motion. They can juggle multiple concepts as well as monitor changes and sense danger so they’re extremely alert dogs. Are they smarter or doing what they’re bred to do? Sounds pretty smart when you think about it.
I think the best thing is to find a dog that suits your lifestyle. If your active that’s a great choice but if your a couch potato dog that are so highly attuned can get bored or get in trouble.
Great point, smart does not mean they make great house pets and they can be absolutely the worst dogs for apartment dwellers that spend a lot of time at work.
When we had our border collie, Angus, he had a small horse corral to himself and avoided boredom by herding all the oak leaves every day. In between he ran in continuous circles and actually created banked curves. To this day I still could not believe it. We seriously considered getting him a pair of sheep at the time.
They also have tremendous endurance, do not expect them to wear out from long walks, ensure they have a large running area. The border collie can run up to 30 miles per day while driving sheep to market. The sheep are herded for 20 miles with the border collies running around them and doing most of the work for the humans.
I had Angus trained to go from the back door of my house to his corral and he was closing the large swing gate. My neighbors loved him and use to feed him treats from their back door so he knew his borders where my backyard and the neighbors backyard.
We had him on an invisible fence but it proved unneeded and silly for him. He figured out that one good running jump and he was past the barrier in exchange for at most a minor shock. He did not understand why we would keep him from the neighbors when he knew that was part of his yard. {All my conjecture of course, as smart as he was, he could not tell me these things }
I witness border collies in action in Scotland before I had Angus. I was amazed by these hard to believe dogs. They can herd cows as well as sheep. They do so my darting between their legs and nipping when needed to correct the direction and progress. I even saw a pair herding a goat back to his pen. I am not sure, but I believe that is a much more difficult task that sheep and cow herding.
Jim
I’m on the other end of the stick. I have two Americn cocker spaniels and I’m very surprised they rated as high as 20th. IME, cockers are not very bright.
I also agree that command understanding may not be the best indicator of intelligence. My dogs are very highly food-motivated and have been fairly easy to train with treats as incentives. But they don’t get other things that I personally equate with smarter dogs, like understanding that sounds on the TV are not sounds in the house, or understanding that an object placed out of sight hasn’t “disappeared” but still exists under or in something else.
Our dog is Papillon with, I believe, long-haired Chihuahua in her.
She’s smart. She has learned her commands and her tricks, but also when to obey, and when to think “eh… I think not.” She responds really well to hand signals, and she problem solves pretty well.
Of course, no one likes to think they have a stupid dog, but I’ve met one or two.
Dogs seem to know what’s “right” and what’s “wrong”… and when to deliberately engage in doing wrong.
What the hell, I’ll brag and complain about my dog.
I have a West Highland Terrier. She’s a good size without being too small. She’s on the small side, weighs about 12lbs. I think normal weight is 16-22 lbs. Also, she doesn’t shed.
What I can tell you is that they’re pretty active and very playful. She’s not the type of dog you find sleeping on the chair. You definitely know she’s around. She gets lots of exercise just running around the house but she does need to be walked and always wants to play.
They’re very friendly dogs. Extremely so. She likes plenty of attention and likes other dogs.
She was pretty easy to housebreak but you really have to work with them to train because they get bored easily. They can be a handful if you’re not used to dogs. But they’re fun. I wouldn’t say they’re great with kids. She loves kids but she’s not the kind of dog you can jump on or be rough with.
Cons-
They have to be groomed which can be expensive.
They’re a terrier so they dig and she needs to be in a fenced in yard because if she sees a squirrel or rabbit she’ll take off.
They have a tendency to have allergies. She’s not so bad but my male had bad allergies.
I happen to like terrier personalities. I had an airdale, a yorkie and two westies. I’ve had other breeds too, a mixed breed and a chow. But I like the size and personality of Westies.
I agree with Caridwen. These dog intelligence tests are really just ease-of-training tests. Some dogs have been bred over the years to respond to commands well; others haven’t.
I find it more fascinating to see the product of hundreds or (sometimes) thousands of years of training. Like what everyone said about border collies - those are some amazing dogs, when they’re allowed to do what they’ve been bred for.
Similarly, when I got my first pug, I had never had a dog that was bred as a companion dog before. In fact, I’m guessing I would have shrugged it off in anyone had tried to tell me about it. But man-oh-man, can you ever tell these little buggers have 3000 years of breeding to be your best friend. I basically have two little shadows that follow me wherever I go. They’re unobtrusive, mostly. They just want to be by me. They’re curious about everything I do, they have almost human like expressions, and they respond when you talk to them. If I sit down, they’re in my lap. If I’m in the kitchen, they hang out where they can see me. I know other dogs do the same thing, but I’ve never seen it to the level that the pugs have.
Command-wise, well, they do what will get them treats. Frodo could sit on command at 10 weeks old. They wouldn’t be much use herding sheep, though, or catching rats. They do sound the alarm when someone comes over, and I’m not sure they know that they’re not as big as that Newfoundland over there.
I have had german shepherds , huskies and now beagles. One is sweet but not too bright dog. Quincy is he smartest dog I have ever seen. by far. He problem solves.
He was licking out a dog food can and it rolled around he basement floor. He picked it up and jammed it into his dry food bowl. It held it place and he licked it clean. Problem solved.
One night he made his I gotta go pee now growl. M wife went to open the breezeway door. As soon as she went far enough ,he ran past her jumped in bed got under the covers and put his head on her pillow. He wanted her out. He devises plans to get things done.
There are many examples but when you look into his eyes there is more there than an average dog.
You can’t tell me that Border Collie’s aren’t the smartest dogs. I’ll never forget seeing three of them herd some sheep onto an elevator on Letterman years ago, with almost no cues from their handler. You could see the center dog signalling with its head for the other two to change position. On an anniversary show, he had the same dogs come back and herd some sheep out the theater and into a waiting cab.
At the after school program I worked at, a kid showed up with a border collie. I had bee working there two years and had never seen this kid or this dog before, so I’m pretty sure they had not been there previously.
The playground had one of those expansive play structures with slides, ladders, ramps, rope bridges, etc.
The kid would shout out commands to the dog, very little gesturing, and the dog would go up exactly the ramp and down exactly the slide the kid told him to, and he changed it every time.
That said, I don’t agree with the methodology of the researcher described in the link, who takes trainability as the main sign of intelligence. My wife had a Lhasa terrier-mix for 14 years. That dog was incredibly smart, but did not do a lot of tricks. I would chalk that up to the bred-in independence and obstinacy of terriers, rather than any innate intelligence. They are meant to go ahead of hunters after small fast game, and stick to digging out their burrows until they have the damn thing, no distractions. IMO, if a terrier doesn’t see the point in what you want them to do, they won’t do it.
We’ve had a Golden Retriever for 2-1/2 years now. She can pick up new commands in a heartbeat, and is one of the smartest, not to mention wiliest dogs I’ve ever met, in that regard. But her personality is not as complex as the Lhasa’s was. She doesn’t seem to display the same breadth of variety of interactions with the world. So i wouldn’t necessarily call her a smarter dog overall.
There are many kinds of smart in animals, as in people. I will say my Shetland Sheepdog/sheltie is a very quick study and very compliant, but that’s also her temperment.
We have two horses, an Arabian and a miniature. Arabians are well-known as being extremely intelligent as far as horses go, and Ana is. She learns new tasks very quickly and is very eager to please. Minis, on the other hand, are considered obstinate and intelligent but not as bright. But in my experience, Firefly is every bit as smart as Ana–she just doesn’t use her brains for good! She knows precisely what I want most of the time and is trying to figure out how to get around it, rather than obey it. She’ll test me, and then when she sees I’m still lead mare in our little herd, she acquiesces. They’re like two little kids in school–Ana’s in the front row with her hand raised for every question, trying to make teacher happy…and Firefly is in the back row throwing spitwads and doing everything she can to hide that she’s as smart as she is.
Over a lifetime of owning many different breeds of dogs and quite a few mutts, I posit that some breeds may be genetically predispositioned to higher intelligence, but intelligence, in the end, rests on the individual dog and, to some extent, the trainer.
“Nature” may grant a greater potential for intelligence to some dogs, but “nuture” has a great deal to do with whether they’ll realize that potential. Owners who encourage intelligence by giving puppies problem-solving games and proper training will end up with a smarter dog than a person who gives it a bare minimum of attention.
Some dogs, like people, lack intellectual curiosity. They don’t try to solve problems and they aren’t very curious about things around them that don’t directly affect them. It’s simply a personality thing. Again, some dogs may have the propensity toward intelligence because of their breed, but their individual personality sometimes trumps it.
Athena, I never had much experience with pugs until I got this crazy dog and became a regular at our neigborhood dog park. They’re pretty popular around here and I think they’re one of the greatest dogs around!
They’re hilarious and amazing dogs with so much personality! Each one is so different and unique! They’re really funny very happy little dogs. I think for overall personality, they’re great. We all sit on the bench and watch them play and they’re a riot.
That’s the way I see the terrier personality. I have a Rat Terrier, and he’s very intelligent, but a hard headed little SOB. He understands exactly what you tell him, but if he doesn’t agree, he can’t be bothered to obey. For example, he knows the names of his various toys/bones. You tell him to get the Fuzzy Rat, and he’ll go right to it, look it over, and bring his bone. Tell him NO! The Fuzzy Rat! and he’ll go right back to it, and then want to play with his bone. He knows damn good and well what the Fuzzy Rat is, but unless HE wants to play with the Fuzzy Rat, he’ll play with what HE wants to play with.
He’d never been quail hunting, and I don’t know how much quail hunting is bred into a Rat Terrier, but he figured it out right away as soon as we had a quail to show him and he knew what the game was. He was a little too good, he brought in one quail that wasn’t shot, just hunkered down until he got right up on it and grabbed it. Didn’t try to eat the birds, he knew what we wanted.
Smart dog, but I’ve never seen anything so hard headed in my life.
Does anyone know how many dogs of each breed were “tested” for this ranking? Because some of these rankings really don’t mesh with my experiences.