Dog-reactive dogs and my desire for a pit bull..

In My Humble Opinion
1

First, I took many classes with a fantastic dog trainer with whom I am still in touch (if you live in Los Angeles, her name is Janine Pierce and her school is J9sK9s); I learned an enormous amount from her and as a result my dogs have long been a source of pride for me and admiration from my friends, because they have been so wonderfully trained.*
The glaring chasm in my skills and comfort level is dog aggression. I am a giant wuss, I completely lose my shit when dogs get into it, and I am the next best thing to useless. In fact, I am kind of menace around big aggressive dogs and their teeth: when my Golden was attacked on a walk by a pitbull, I was so terrified I kept yanking on MY dog to, I guess, try to protect her, but of course what I succeeded in doing was making it especially hard for her to protect HERSELF…duh. (I screamed so hard during that encounter that I actually damaged my throat and could barely speak or swallow for about two days.) When I had Cockers it was no sweat: grab each by the scruff and pull 'em apart. Well, I like big dogs now.

The dog I have now is a 65 pound Rottie/Border Collie/??? that is ridiculously sweet, submissive, smart and strong. He’s just about flawless in all the ways that matter. He loves other dogs and loves to play… as long as THEY do. If he encounters a reactive dog, whether it’s behind a fence or window or outside when he’s in…he responds in kind. It is the one thing I have been completely unable to change in him so far, and it drives me crazy. It makes walks pretty much impossible because he is too strong and he loses his shit and we end up struggling with each other. But I can control him when we bike, so that’s the way he gets his yayas out - he veers toward the dog and I just keep pedaling…problem solved. (Best thing that ever happened to me and my dogs: the Bike Tow Leash. It’s AMAZING.)

ANYWAY… I go into all this to open the conversation about dog reactivity. I do not want another dog-reactive dog. It’s very stressful. I didn’t realize that Preston was dog reactive until he was already pretty much grown, because he came into my home when I had an adult 90 pound female Golden who totally ruled over him. By the time she was gone and he was displaying his reactivity, he was already pretty strong and fixing it became much harder.

I want a second dog now, it’s time. And my heart is yanking me really hard in the direction of pit bulls because I have met SO many that are so sweet and lovable, and they are so frequently abandoned and in need of rescue. I already know that I want a female and I want her to be very young so I can raise her right, but my trainer has warned me that pits do have a higher genetic tendency to be dog-reactive because, of course, they have often been selectively bred for that exact characteristic by assholes. They can be just like the dog I have now: absolutely fine with dogs they are raised with and know, and even dogs that are friendly, but batshit around other reactive dogs.

So my question is this: do you know of any way to test for this in a puppy or young dog, AND… do you know of effective ways to change this before it gets entrenched in very powerful adult dog? Because even if I don’t end up with pit, any dog can turn out like this and I want to avoid it if I can.

Your input very much appreciated.

*For instance, a friend was fixing my back gate, and to do so he had to remove both sides, leaving an 8-foot wide area unblocked between the back and the front; over the half-day that the gate was down, my dog never once set foot across the line where the gate normally is - one of the first things he learned as a baby was which lines don’t get crossed without an invitation, the other being the front door. (That and the recall are the two most important things you can teach your dog because they will keep your dog safer than anything else.) My friend couldn’t believe it. Different day and friend, Chinese food spilled all over the floor. We are cleaning up and Preston is just watching. My friend says “What, he doesn’t like Chinese food??” I said “of course he loves Chinese food, he just isn’t going to eat it without permission. Preston, Ok!” and he nailed it, practically inhaling it. My friend has been telling that story for a month.)

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If I got the right picture in my head according to your post, it’s quite possible your dog was only reacting that way because he thought he was protecting you. (Your dog knows when you get nervous and that makes him nervous too.)

If you bring a new pup home Preston should take his cues off you and realize the new pup is NOT a threat and quite possibly a friend.

3

Forgot to add: When picking out a pup, give his/her paw a good squeeze and don’t let go. (Don’t hurt him!) If the pup licks your hand, he’s probably a softy, if he bites that doesn’t mean he’s evil incarnate but probably leans more to the alpha side.

4

I’d heard about the paw thing, thanks for the reminder.

Just to clarify, I’m not at all concerned about Preston’s reaction to a new puppy, I’m concerned about avoiding having another dog like Preston himself. My Golden was so zen it spoiled me - she could be smack in the middle of a dozen hysterical yapping spazzing dogs and as far as she was concerned they didnt’ even exist. It was wonderful.

5

My gut instinct is that you should just avoid bully breeds. Sure, there’s a likelihood that a dog of another breed might be reactive - but since you KNOW that a reactive dog isn’t a good fit for you, and your family/pack, why take that risk?

I’d also avoid herding breeds, as too tend to be dog reactive. Another Golden? A Lab? A Setter?

There’s some great tips here if you want to desensitize Preston, and I think that might be a good start. Training the “look” cue is a great way of breaking that scary eye contact.

In terms of puppy training - I would make sure your new dog doesn’t get a chance to see Preston at his worst. You want your new dog to have a GREAT role-model for how to greet other dogs, right? Do you have a friend who has a non-reactive, friendly dog that you can walk with? I’m not suggesting that you should never walk your new dog with Preston, but to maybe avoid his reactive situations until New Dog has had a chance to form his own greeting behaviour.

Best of luck! I hope you find a great match.

6

The shelter where I volunteer tests all dogs for reactivity to other dogs. They have a whole process, walking them near each other, letting them sniff, letting them loose together, etc. Also, most shelters I know of will let you bring your current dog for a meet-and-greet with the dog you are thinking of adopting to see if they will get a long.

While it’s possible pit bull-type dogs may be more inclined to dog reactivity than some other breeds, that in no way means most of them are dog reactive. I run a program for the pit bulls at the shelter where I volunteer. The vast, vast majority of them are kennelled with other dogs, often other pit bulls. They get a long great. One gets adopted, they get a new kennel mate, and those two get along great. Pit bulls are very social dogs if no one is teaching them otherwise.

7

Terrific resource, araminty, thank you! I am much better off with to-the-point instruction, and this is all stuff I’ve heard from my trainer but having it neatly spelled out in writing is great. Thanks.

8

I know… I keep meeting these delicious pits, so I get that they are lovely dogs. But as Shakes pointed out, my own fear is a terrible thing I have to struggle with because my dog reads it, and I’ve experienced and heard enough that I have my own reactivity to deal with. I could just skip looking at bully breeds altogether, but I really want to overcome my fears and my issues and open myself to a pit.

9

I have a big, dog-reactive dog. Yes, I made mistakes with him because I’d never had one before. But you know what? He was born dominant and suspicious and prone to go on the offensive if he feels threatened.

If you don’t want to deal with owning a dog-reactive dog, stay away from breeds historically bred for protection or dog-fighting, or other aggressive behavior (I’m talking to you, terriers), and stick to breeds historically bred to get along with other dogs, like retrievers, hounds, spaniels. I mean, for starters.

You want a pit bull, you are taking a big risk. Sorry about the facts.

10

I have two pit bull mixes. The pit bull/Shar-pei is just fine, silly, goofy, everyone and everydog is his friend. The pit bull/German Shepherd is dog reactive, but only when he is on leash. It is 100% fear based and I am not sure what caused it. If he’s not on leash, so in a fence yard or in the house he is not at all reactive. Araminty’s link looks like it has some really good techniques. I am going to start working with Georgie more consistently to desensitize him. Going for walks is just a pain right now. We go after dark and make detours if we see other dogs.

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Well, in case you missed it, I got my bullygirl. She’s about 5 months old now. This is the two of them partying down. So far she’s a total sweetheart. Active and strong and strong-willed, but super sweet. And goofy. Which I realize is a lot of the appeal for me in pits/bullys - goofy. As you will see in the video, Preston is extremely elegant, and he’s super goofy for him in this video. But his standard presentation is handsome and elegant, and I like goofy dogs.

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Do you carry any insurance policies where the insurer requires higher premiums or will not cover situations where a pit is involved?

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Good question. I have no clue. I will look into that. Thanks for bringing it up.

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I loved watching your video! Thank you for sharing it. Looks like you have a couple of happy dogs there.

Do check with your homeowners’ insurance or renters’ insurance which ever you have. A lot of them will not cover you for a dog bite if you have certain breeds. We just switched from Farmer’s to State Farm because State Farm is the last insurance company in our area NOT to require a separate policy for our “pit bull type” dogs.

15

Eh. Most insurance companies that note what type of dog you have will be just as unhappy about the Rottweiler mix you already had as by a pit bull you just added. They write these policies to protect themselves from perceived extra expenses, and will tend to include any breed that might make dollar signs appear in the eyes of potential litigants.

Regarding reactivity – puppies will hardly ever show reactivity; it’ll be when she gets older that you’ll know. And I agree with the advice to try and keep her from seeing Preston be reactive – she will be modeling his behavior and learning from him.

16

From the way you have described yourself I get the impression you are not that physically strong. Getting a dog aggressive dog that’s stronger than you re you not being able to control them physically in an emergency or brewing dog fight is a prescription for huge problems down the line.

You are an intelligent women but this is (IMO) a foolish choice of pets.

17

I met with my trainer who evaluated Zusje and found her to be a very nice puppy with no apparent brewing problems. We had biting issues that were concerning me, but using the things my trainer taught me they were wiped out in a week and so far she’s super friendly and secure with both people and dogs.

But I am taking nothing for granted, of course, the training continues.