Dogs and human beings.

In My Humble Opinion
21

My dog, Bean, is now ten years old. About three years ago, my husband and I had to move in with my grandmother because our house wasn’t finished yet. My grandmother frequently babysat the two little girls who lived next door (their mother was the epitome of irresponsibility.)

I got a frantic call from my grandmother one day while I was at work, saying that Bean had bitten one of the girls. I rushed home to find out what had happened. The child had a half-inch long cut on her face which didn’t require stitches, though they took her to the hospital just to make sure. (I believe it was actually a scratch from Bean’s nails, not a bite mark.) The mother was indifferent to it. A report was made to the animal control offices, and they came out to meet Bean, and filed a report.

The girl admitted a couple of days later that she had been tormenting the dog whenever she got a chance. Whenever she saw Bean sleeping, she would creep up and kick her. One day, Bean must have decided enough was enough, or the kick must have been especially painful, because she lept up, and knocked the child over. My grandparents heard the child scream and Bean’s barks, and rushed to seperate them. I’m pretty sure Bean didn’t mean to actually hurt the kid, because she’s strong enough to do a lot of damage, and had enough time if she wanted to do so, but the kid only had that one small mark.

I admit, I didn’t socialize Bean properly when she was a puppy, but she had never shown any agression before that. After that kid’s campaign of terror, she became a different dog. She barks or growls whenever anyone disturbs her while she’s sleeping, afraid she’ll be kicked. She gets agressive when she senses I’m nervous, and, of course, I’m nervous to have her around people, so I keep her upstairs when guests come over. She’s never hurt anyone else, but I’m afraid of the potential.

I take precautions. I always watch the dogs when they’re outside, even though our yard is surrounded by a high fence. I keep her away from strangers just to be on the safe-side. (She has been around my neice and other friends and relatives with no problems.)

I don’t blame Bean. Any creature is bound to react to torture after a while, and I should have socialized her more as a puppy. I haven’t made the same mistake with the other dogs.

22

NO agressive behaviour at all? You put down a dog for SNARLING? I have to agree with everyone else, maybe what you’re really after is a set of dog-shaped plush toys. Hell, not even my guinea pigs would be alive anymore by your standards.

I remember a story my third grade teacher told us about her cocker spaniel Ziggy. They had some family friends who had a daughter who was 7 when the key events in this story occurred. They were occasional visitors, and every time the girl came she’d bother the dog, tugging on his ears and tail, trying to ride him like a horse, and so on. She was repeatedly told not to but insisted on doing so anyway. Ziggy for the most part tolerated her but would sometimes growl or run away. One day, when the family was over for Christmas or Easter or some other Christian holiday, the girl went to tug on his ears again. And he bit her on the face. He was later found to have had an ear infection, which made the girl’s ear-tugging very painful. But he was put down anyway, because one little girl was too airheaded to treat the dog properly despite being repeatedly told to do so.

Fair?

People need to treat animals with respect. It’s unrealistic to expect a dog to never show aggression under the best of circumstances, just like it’s unrealistic to expect a toddler to never throw a tantrum. It’s even more so when you take into account all the possible reasons for aggressive behaviour, including provocation. Animals are ANIMALS, not placid drones put on the earth for your enjoyment. If a dog snaps at someone for petting them while they’re eating I’d be more inclined to blame the person than the dog because dogs don’t like being bothered while eating and it’s up to them to know and respect that.

23

As an aside, I wonder what the psychological effect would be if such a kid was told afterwards (or beforehand, as a warning) that the dog had to die because of his reaction to her taunting.

24

I can’t say that I agree with the OP. If that was true, my Mom’s dog would have been put down years ago.
What happened was, she had gotten out of the yard while everyone was at school/work and gotten hit by a car on the busy street in front of our house. Someone who went to help got snapped at (btw, I’m talking a little Shi Tzu here). When we got home, a neighbor had left a note saying the dog was at the local SPCA and under quarantine until we went in and brought her rabies tags, etc. Luckily someone knew it was our dog, or we would have never known.
The dog’s pelvis was shattered, and she was in no mood to be messed with by a stranger, but in your world, that would have been enough to end her life. Not fair.
How would you like a lethal injection for getting angry and taking a swing at someone? Drunk, justified, or not, it doesn’t matter, I’m sorry.

25

If this is about the thread currently in the Pit, the little kid was poking her arms in the privacy fence and pulling on the dog’s ears. If another human being pulled on YOUR ears, you’d probably hit back, I would imagine.

Dogs can’t talk, they can’t say, “Please, little girl, don’t hit me. Little boy, I don’t like it when you kick my legs to make me trip. Please don’t poke sticks in my face-that hurts.” So they snap and bite.

My friend’s cousin got bit by her dog once. My friend and I were sitting on her bed watching TV and the dog was sitting on her lap. Then her little brother and cousin came running in and started punching at my friend with an old boxing glove. My friend warned them, but they didn’t listen and when the dog got hit, he nipped her cousin. It wasn’t all that much-he wasn’t really hurt, and he was worried about getting in trouble. But the kid’s mother made a huge fuss and called the cops.

And somehow, the DOG is at fault? Christ.

26

Oh horrors. What about my Australian Cattle Dog? As a puppy he was so cute when he’d growl at his chew toy that I encouraged and rewarded that. “Ohhhh, look at you, you’re so tough, kissy kissy.” I can’t turn him around now, I’ve tried. When you pet him he growls and wags his tail. When you get your face in his face he growls even harder and when you tweak his whiskers and make smooching noises at him he lifts his lips and growls (snarls) his heart out. I guess it’s an aggressive behavior with no aggressive intent? Where does that leave him - think I should have him put down? Maybe I just didn’t realize it and I am living with a ticking time bomb??

27

Hey now, the Aquatic Ape Hypothesis is already being discussed elsewhere.

:smiley:

28

Yes, I think the OP calls for Draconian measures that I can’t agree with 100%. I have personally been bitten (more like nipped, not really hurt very badly) as a child by my own dog, because I was running, tripped, and fell right on her, hurting her. She reacted quickly, out of pain, and you could see by her behavior afterward (submissive, tail between legs, etc.) that she was not at all aggressive. She was a 20 lb. (at best) dog, and I was a 60 lb. (or more) child - I held no grudge against her. I scared & hurt her a bit, she scared and hurt me a bit, we both recovered and it didn’t happen again.

I’d hate to live in a society that would’ve taken my dog away and had her put down after the incident. I would’ve been devastated.

29

I’m not sure why you had it put down. When I read your tale, my first thought was that you neighbor did something to your dog just like in Lissa’s story.

In my experience, dogs don’t just become unhinged and aggressive for no reason.

30

Bolding mine. If your dog “wouldn’t even growl” at the neighbour while you were around, what happened during the fence-leaping incident? Did you see that, or was that what the neighbour told you as well?

I’ve seen incidents where neighbours take a dislike to other neighbours’ dogs, and take it into their heads to “prove” said dogs are nasty, vicious, whatever. They torment the dogs until they do snap. Could you clarify what happened, please?

31

No, my neighbor didn’t do anything to her. I did watch her go for him one time when she didn’t know I was there, and all he did was walk next to the fence. He was a very mild-mannered man, and embarrassed even to bring it up. My other dog thought he was great. What I saw was a serious bite attempt (in my proffessional opinion as a former vet tech and Animal Control Officer) and not just a warning shot, so I didn’t question his concern when she actually connected with him. She tore his shirt and left a bruise.

She was just slowly losing her marbles, and starting to eye the kids as targets too. I could not have rehomed a time-bomb like that and lived with myself if she bit someone else. As my dog, she was my responsibility, and since I place human life higher than canine life, I took the most humane measure to solve the problem. No, I wouldn’t have put her down for biting in response to provocation (for the first time anyway,) but life is too short to keep biting dogs around at the risk of my children and neighbors.

32

Ah, okay. Thanks for the explanation, Cowboy Jules.

33

yes, dogs certainly can “lose it” as they age. we once owned a toy poodle bitch (and she certainly was one, in every sense of the word) who progressed, over time, from growling if you approached her food dish, to insane growling when you approached, to unprovoked biting of a visitor who happened to let his hand dangle over a low chair arm when she was near, to growling and snapping at all family members, including my stepfather who was the only one who could stand the little monster at that point. my mother and i both lobbied to have her put down, which he finally agreed to once she started biting HIM.

good riddance to bad rubbish.

of course, i think a good portion of her neurotic behavior came from over-breeding. (ostensibly show-quality bloodlines) then again, i’m mostly a cat person at heart, although i’ve been know to be extremely fond of a few large dogs during my lifetime. (bad experience with a dachshund as a toddler.)

34

We encourage our dog (she’s nearly 12) to growl. It’s totally non-aggressive, unless you’re a squirrel. She growls at the cats when they get too close to a treat, but will share her food bowl with the kitten with nary a raised lip. We encourage it to a point. The cats need to know who’s dominant. Any biting is immediately punished. She bit the cat once, he slapped her face, and that was the end of that.

She growls for attention, she growls when tornado sirens go off. She’s not dangerous or aggressive, in fact, she’s extremely submissive (unless you’re a squirrel).

She’s actually growling in this picture. Hockey

Guess I should have her put down. Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaangerous.

There is a point at which a dog becomes dangerous. Good observation of behavior and warning signs can usually prevent anyone getting seriously hurt.

35

I think the OP is a little over the top as well. There is a difference between agressive dogs and dogs that have a single experience that appears agressive.

On the other hand, we’re going to have one of our cats put down this weekend* because of an unprovoked attack on my husband. Max bit hubby’s left index finger, tearing the skin badly on his knuckle down to the bone and pulling out chunks of fat on the other side, putting deep puntures in his thigh, and assorted other punctures and lacerations on both hands.

Max has been getting getting more and more agressive as he gets older and now he’s dangerous. After seeing what he did to mr.stretch’s hand, there is no way we’re keeping him around to attack someone else–perhaps my 19-month old grandson, which would be a very bad thing.

So, kam, how do you feel about putting down dangerous cats?

*Max has to be quarantined for 10 days in case he’s rabid, otherwise he would have been put down the day after the attack.

36

Da hell?? The reason they quarantine critters is to keep from having to kill them; it’s actually less effective in determining disease status. Standard routine is to put them down then examine the brain tissue, unless the owners of a vaccinated animal want to quarantine instead. I can’t think of any reason to quarantine an animal that’s going to be put down anyway.

37

I agree that if a dog hurts a person. Dogs will lash out if they have stupid things done to them, though, and people need to teach their children to be careful.

Now, yippy dogs need to just be put down. There is no point in them except to give the dog bow market a boost. And don’t even get me started on toe nail painting for the dog. What’s next, botox?

What really burns me is when people let their dogs run around off the leash and then when they start running after you barking, growling and showing their teeth, you hear “Don’t worry, FuFu won’t hurt you.” Yeah right! I will grab my pepper spray and get them right in the eyes. People need to learn to keep their dogs in the yard or on a leash.

38

Uh, you never got him his shots?

:dubious:

39

Um, no, I love dogs with much passion. It’s cats that I regard as little more than oxygen theives. :smiley:

FTR, the reason I had the dog put down was that he had taken to snarling threateningly at people when being walked (on leash) for no apparent reason. Now I’m sure HE had a reason, but I couldn’t understand it, and I was not prepared to take the risk of someone being eventually hurt. I had a young baby at the time who had just started crawling, and the dog’s erratic personality scared me enough to make an appointment at the vet.

Also FTR, no, I would not have a dog put down or muzzled if it was in an accident/otherwise in pain and reacted defensively with a growl or a nip. That is not indicative of the long-term potential for the dog to be aggressive towards others.

To clarify, there seem to be thousands of dogs out there that are like time-bombs. The owners defend their little quirks and oddities by saying they’re only cranky under very specific circumstances, and that Rover is really a darling and he wouldn’t hurt a fly.

But, as I pointed out in the OP, those warning signs are often there for some time before Rover goes mental and kills the toddler. I just wish that dog (and yes, cat) owners could gain a little bit of detachment when it comes to their animals and learn to recognise potentially dangerous behaviours before they become a danger to others. You might well love Rover (or Fluffly) unconditionally, but that should not allow you to be blinded to their nature.

40

Yes, Guin, he’s had his shots–it’s just what they require around here. I too think it’s stupid to make me quarantine a cat that has had his vaccinations and will be put down, but them’s the rules.