Not wanting to be gay is a really big part. Many gays (raises hand) go through the “everybody’s basically bisexual” phase of rationalization, which while it probably is true to a certain extent is most certainly not true to the extent that the adherents of this rationalization can perceive it (i.e. most straight guys really don’t have sexual fantasies about other men under “normal” circumstances). Perhaps (and I’m totally speculating- I don’t know anything about Clay that’s not in his bios and articles and I’ve read very few of those) Clay was in that “I’m a bisexual and one day I’ll marry and have kids… I’m just waiting for the ‘likes women’ phase to kick in.” Even in the far more accepting 21st century men, particularly those in conservative areas with a strict sense of conservative Christian values, continue to marry women even when their true orientation is gay. They often justify it with an “I’m not queer or anything, I’m a Christian who has odd fantasies… damn that groomsmen looks hot in his tux, but what the hell was he thinking with that boutonierre, it clashes with his cravat… oh well, on to the honeymoon. At least it’s in Disney World.” I feel very sorry for these guys, but they do exist.
Interesting. Thanks for the response. I wasn’t trying to be critical either it’s just something that doesn’t make sense to me. I discovered long ago that women do strange things to me. I don’t understand them too well nor do I like being around them all the time but at certain times, something kicks in which leads to all sorts of fun.
Being in a straight relationship as a gay person sounds like a circle of hell to me. I understand that there are places that aren’t so enlightened as to accept gay people but it seems like a prison sentence.
Of course, I begged my ex to go gay just for the weekend with her best friend…but that’s just because I’m a cretin.
Whatever Clay Aiken is into, I hope he finds it.
It’s only been in the last few decades that any but a very few true freethinkers have “realized” they were gay. Before the gay rights movement of the 60s, most men with those urges were culturally conditioned to think of them as anomolous, and not to be indulged. Sure, there were the iconoclastic exceptions, like Quentin Crisp, Truman Capote, Gertrude Stein, and people who thought like they did, but they were “pioneers” and in the tiniest minority imaginable. Many people who, under different cultural conditions, would acknowledge themselves as gay, exist in cultural contexts that don’t really allow for that. So it’s not so much that they know they’re gay, and they just keep it a secret (although that condition certainly exists too), but that they understand their urges in a different way. As temporary, immature urges that they fully expect to outgrow or overcome. Part of the general confusion of adolescence.
Or, on preview, what Sampiro said.
In many cultures–including many (if not most!) American subcultures, we are taught to control and overcome such feelings, not to embrace them and identify ourselves by them. This is why the closets in this country are so full. Straight people are culturally encouraged to embrace and fulfill their natural urges. Gay people are culturally discouraged from doing so.
Hijacking even further, but I think the OPs run its course: one thing that should be remembered is that it’s very possible for gay men to enjoy sex with women, at least for a while. Most of my gay male friends, particularly those older than I am, had sex with women before they did with men. Later it requires more and more fantasies to get through it, but even so it was possible.
Another major factor about gay men in denial: the ones who wanted children really only in the last few years had any option other than to marry a woman and beget them the old fashioned way. Even today two men raising a baby is an oddity and usually requires a private adoption which costs a lot of money and isn’t protected nearly as much as a straight adoption, but 20 years ago maybe one in 50 gay couples would even have considered adopting a baby.
Will Geer (bka Grandpa Walton), who really did catch on early as to his “true nature”, nevertheless married a lesbian (1930s) because he wanted children. They remained together for years, each with their “bit on the side”, to raise them, and when the kids were of a certain age they basically dissolved their partnership (although they remained friends- Geer’s now very elderly ex-wife and their daughter run the theater he started). I suspect there were many relationships like this used both as a cover and for kids.
That surprises me. Do they tend to be promiscious or do they find one female partner and just “stick with what they know” so to speak?
Or, rather…something is not up! 
They tend–generalizing here–to be EXTRA promiscuous. Several reasons: because they have something to prove, and because they often find that though they can go through the motions, they can’t really “connect” romantically with a single woman. Personally, when my gaydar dings, and the guy’s closeted, promiscuity with women is sometimes one of the indicators. Not by itself, you understand; as part of a constellation of clues. A bit of protesting too much.
Interesting…adds an entirely new element to our male culture that tends to approve if not celebrate male promiscuity.
For me, I knew my inclinations, but I didn’t have a word for it and regardless, I knew it was wrong - whatever it might be called.
My mom probably didn’t do it on purpose, but she was a psychiatric nurse so whenever she spoke to me about homosexuals it was always in the context of her patients and how they’re really not all that bad, but their lives are tragic and they always end up mental patients. Eventually, they go crazy and it’s exacerbated by the inevitable syphilis & gonorrhea. Homosexual was a psychiatric diagnosis. A medical diagnosis of something wrong.
So I knew I wasn’t homosexual, because I felt pretty normal.
Gay? Nope. Gays are men who want to be women & wear dresses. You see, this is how gays do it: One pretends to be the “man,” and one pretends to be the “woman.”
So I knew I wasn’t gay, because that just sounds really stupid and it sure wasn’t what I wanted.
What was I? Didn’t know for sure. I definitely knew I preferred men over women, but I wasn’t gay or homosexual. Couldn’t be. I felt too normal except for that one thing. You know. That thing about preferring guys over girls. But hopefully I’d grow out that phase.
This is turning into a fascinating discussion.
Do you mind me asking Levdrakon if you were promiscious with women? That is, did you have a lot of sexual relationships with a lot of different women?
Dated lots of girls. Never had sex with one of 'em unless you count making out & some petting. I was willing to go all the way though. I felt like I had to. Fortunately the one girlfriend I got to that point with chickened out and I was all “thank God, I didn’t want to do it anyway.” I didn’t say that to her though. It was more, “that’s ok. I respect your wishes. You shouldn’t do anything you’re not ready for.” Inside I was thinking “woo hoo! We can continue dating and not have sex! This is awsome!” And that’s pretty much what we did. All the girls thought she was getting some, and therefore she was cool. All the guys thought I was getting some, and therefore I was cool. The girl and I just enjoyed each other’s company, which really was cool. We slept together all the time. Just never… well you know.
But my best male friend, the guy who later became as close to what I can describe as my first boyfriend, used to have sex with girls fairly often. He crudely described it as “getting his dick wet.” That’s basically all it was to him. He went through the motions. What the heck? Doesn’t hurt. It’s basically pornstar-mode or male escort-mode. You just do it.
I guess I’m astonished at two things that this thread has brought up.
One is the people would live a lie for so long (though I can appreciate the reasons) and the other is the mental torture they would inflict on themselves by sleeping around wiht a sex they have no interest in.
I guess I find the second a little hard to believe. If you’re a homosexual I can’t imagine you want to go down on 100 women just to prove your not homosexual. That’s taking self-delusion to an entirely different level.
Except your culture encourages it. Part of your revulsion in imagining the opposite is cultural; that aspect is reversed when the situation is reversed.
People are highly adaptable. You can get used to almost anything.
Exactly. I have a couple friends who are straight, but “gay for pay.” The first time they had to be offered a LOT of money, and they had to like hold their noses (or whatever), but once they realized it didn’t hurt, they got used to it. One’s a globetrotting escort, makes over $100K a year, and the other’s a pretty prominent gay porn star. With a wife and kid. Hey, it’s a job.
Totally ditto. I had same sex attractions from the time I was in first grade and my “self-enjoyment” was totally to fantasies of other guys (other than in dreams I’ve never had sexual fantasies of women) I honestly thought of the day I’d marry, have kids and live happily ever after. I was 21 before I said “I’m gay” to another person.
Yuh. Similar, cept younger. I was 11 when I said “I’m gay” to myself, and 14 when I said it to someone else. I was still imagining I’d have to find a girl to marry and live the rest of my life in a closet though.
Since I know far too much about Clay, let me say that the only time he directly addressed the question of whether he was gay was in Rolling Stone in 2003. He has refused to answer the question since, and articles that comment on it have used the Rolling Stone quote. I have always thought that he was either denying that he was gay or self-identifying as bisexual at the time of that interview. FWIW, the profile corresponsing to the screenname that Clay allegedly used to set up this recent alleged tryst describes his orientation as bisexual.
What is sad is that if the story is true, Clay wasn’t hiring an escort or looking for a one-night stand. He reportedly contacted Paulus from another city and they talked on IM and the phone for 2 weeks before they met and Clay told him he was looking for a discreet boyfriend. It would suck to have somebody betray you that way.
On the other hand, I find it amusing that this green beret is afraid of death threats from the Claymates, although having met some of them (I am NOT one) I suspect they are capable of tearing him limb from limb.
Finally-90 minutes of passion? Woohoo, go Clay!
Make that denying to himself he was gay
If the story is true (which is still a big if- if it’s not Clay needs to sue the hell out of the guy and the Enquirer- while being called “gay” may not be covered under libel laws the semi-anonymous and “unprotected sex” part would be) I hope Clay will just come out. I don’t think it will cost him that terribly many fans as his voice is still incredible for a “little white boy” (his words at his auditon, which is available here if you’ve never seen it- Simon & Randy were visibly stunned) and he’s still the same person, and with an Oprah circuit tour he can talk about his gayness til everybody’s sick of hearing about it and it’s no longer an issue then get back to his life. By now he’s surely stacked away enough money to still live well even if his career nosedives, but I don’t think it will.