Don't ask Don't Tell, unnecessary harm ,and injustice

On the Rachel Madow show the other night I watched a decorated fighter pilot talk about getting discharged from the military after 18 years of courageous service and many successful missions because he’s gay.

Here’s the story with video

I didn’t put this in GD because IMO there is no debate. This is a horrible miscarriage of justice and serves as a stunning example of just how stupid it is to discriminate against gays in the military. The man is a patriot and hero. How can they be this blind and ignorant?

They’re worried about the “moral fabric” of our military. Which is complete crap, of course, and ruins many lives. From what people serving in the military have told me, nobody in your unit gives a flying shit whom you fuck as long as you’re doing what you’re supposed to be doing while on duty.

And yet another example of government wasting taxpayer dollars. Can you even imagine how much money they spent training that guy? And retraining, and upgrading his training?
Not to belittle the moral issue (or non-issue) but fergoodnessakes!

He estimates they spent 25 million training him.

Someone’s going to come in and say “well you don’t have to like it but rules are rules.” Now would be a good time for Obama to step up and take a very firm stance on the issue.

Don’t hold your breath. Don’t get me wrong…I voted for him. I think he’s a vast improvement over the previous occupant. But I’ve come to expect typical Democrat boilerplate on this issue…basically, we’ll be all progressive on LGBT issues during the campaign, but don’t really expect us to burn any political capital on it afterward. The White House website has been flickering with bold statements that were put up earlier this year being taken down or sidelined or “consolidated”.

I think so too. With such a glaringly obvious example of just how stupid it it now would be a good time to seize the moment. I have to wonder why he doesn’t seem to be seriously addressing the issue. Is it timing? He wants to focus on other issues for now. Here’s the golden opportunity man. Take it. Is it something to do with his position as CIC and getting along with the joint chiefs rather than starting a conflict with them.

I’d also like to see more major news outlets picking up on it, and where are Stewart & Colbert?

Stewart did this on 5/14. Starts about 3:50…they did over 5 minutes on the subject.

We’re talking about someone putting his life on the line to save mine. I don’t care who he’s fucking (or not as the case may be - when you’re serving in the military and trying to hide it does the opportunity arise often? That’s a whole other sacrifice.)

While I understand your impatience, I think you’ll see much better returns during Term 2.

Exactly … if the person in question isn’t going to end up in my bed, I really don’t care whose bed they are in … and it really shouldn’t matter.

Though it appears an absolute no-brainer, the obtuse resistance to this form of integration is still quite appalling. If you get a chance, see the new film Ask Not, which is having a series of public screenings all over the U.S. before airing on PBS on June 16. It handles all aspects of the controversy astutely and provides a fairly slamdunk case for the eradication of such a disastrous policy. Definitely worth checking out.

Thanks for the heads up! I will definitely be checking this out.

And yes, there is no debate. The absurd prejudice makes me want to vomit, and the public should be irate that potential soldiers are being shut out and good soldiers are being fired (not to mention much-needed translators and other specialists).

And here he is.

Rules and laws are what they are. This person knew the rules when he joined and signed his contract. Now he’s whining because he was discharged for violating them.

Before you start, let me just say that personally, I could not care less about anyone’s sexual orientation (or whatever the PC term currently is). I’ve served with several men who are gay, we all knew it but it wasn’t discussed (because that is the rule.) Most of us feel the same way.

Whether or not someone is homosexual is not the issue in this case. It is about violating rules/laws. If someone violates the UCMJ, they usually will be punished to some degree, anything from a verbal reprimand to a Bad Conduct Discharge and hard labor in Leavenworth.

What about this? The armed forces currently have zero tolerance for use of illegal drugs. Many people believe that marijuana should be legalized and think that there is nothing wrong with its use. If a soldier or sailor uses marijuana and is caught (random urinalysis) they will be separated, period. That is the rule. It’s not about whether or not marijuana use, or being homosexual, is moral.

I agree with other posters that the thing to do if you feel strongly about this is to contact your congressional representatives and tell them you want the law changed. That’s what they get paid to do.

Yes, how dare he protest an unjust law. Also, why is it that whenever anybody talks about his or her conviction of something that shouldn’t be against the law, somebody inevitably calls it whining?

Actually, it’s about both. DADT is the law, and it’s a bad law. Sometimes, laws don’t get changed until people see how wrong they are. This is one way to do that.

I didn’t say that he couldn’t protest what he perceives as an unjust law. I actually applaud him for doing so. He is a decorated warrior and I have the utmost respect for that.

My point is that when we sign up for military service, we do so willingly and with the full understanding that we are putting ourselves under a whole new set of rules that the rest of society doesn’t have. It’s called the Uniform Code of Military Justice. An O-5 with 18 years of service certainly understands this. My problem with him is that he is effectively saying “I shouldn’t be punished for breaking that law because it isn’t fair.”

There are several things in the UCMJ and Navy Regulations that I don’t think are right, but I still obey them because to violate them makes me a hypocrite and puts my career at risk. For instance, I think it is an unfair double standard that women can wear earrings while in uniform but men cannot. I am still required to follow this rule and enforce it among the men under my charge. Maybe this is a poor example compared to the Lt. Col’s case, but my point is still the same.

As to DADT, I too think it is a bad law. I know from personal experience with friends that this law prevents many very good people from joining the military. I think it should be repealed.

You don’t think he’d be a bigger hypocrite if he pretended to be straight?

He already did this for almost 18 years.

Not necessarily. We all have aspects of ourselves that we take a long time to learn or accept, and some we’ll never realize.

That can include sexual orientation.

Moving thread from IMHO to MPSIMS.