I hate when people use the term “retarded” to describe someone or something mildly stupid, or somewhat clumsy. You accidentally dropped your books in the hallway…you’re not retarded. You said “black” instead of “back”…you’re not retarded. Please stop using the term “retarded” in such an insulting fashion.
Xan: You can only call people Stalinists if they’re Stalinists. Wait. This is getting dull. Shit. I know, we’ll mix it up, you can only call people Stalinists if they’re Maoists, Maoists if they’re McCarthyites, and McCarthyites if they’re Anabaptist.
Jodi: I missed you too.
RR: Interesting input. However, Seinfeld only did the Soup Nazi thing once. A one time gag doesn’t bother me, it’s the way this usage is mainstreaming and threatening to cheapen the original meaning of the word.
Mr. Blue Sky: No problem, everybody misses sarcasm. I was expecting tio get shit, and I giving out shit in return. Love the Pit. And JFTR I was only being sarcastic about being a moderator. I meant everything else.
FUB: Another good one for The List!
–John
Nothing works if you take yourself seriously.
isn’t the use of the word nazi and rape something that can evolve over time. Doesn’t language evolve and levels of offense change over time? (where did I hear that before?)
The word gay, as it’s used today, is not the same as it was used in 1890. So should we not call someone gay who really is not gay.? If I see a homosexual who is in a bad mood, would it be wrong to refer to him as gay?
Beautiful. Oblong is flaming me because I flamed him in a different thread. Yes, asshole, words can change in meaning over time. I’m trying to prevent Nazi and rape from changing in a way I find distasteful before the new usages have been mainstreamed.
Go back to complaining that women are offended when you call them c**ts.
–John
I think you are far too late in your quest.
Quit whining about it and move on.
You fucking word nazi.
yes, Oblong, language evolves over time. A point you seem to be missing here, however, is that for example, the word “Nazi” names a specific group of people in history, people who have come to personify evil, representing the depths of human depravity. To start using that word to apply to ‘folks who annoyed me mightily’ A. weakens the word, B. trivializes the experiences of those who had suffered directly and indirectly from the real Nazis C. does not add to the ‘greater’ number of ways to express ourselves (in fact it reduces the extremes). So, there’s this suggestion that we make some attempt to allow some things to remain represntative of the original meaning.
Words, like many of our customs allow us to see, at a glance (as it were) many different levels of communication. We tend to dress differently for work vs. play, we often would choose to show or not show tattoos etc depending on the circumstances. I, for one, chose to not swear in front of my mother (including using words like ‘shit’). I saw it as a way of demonstrating respect etc.
ON the other hand, if people choose to act like assholes, I have no difficulty spotting them, either.
It doesn’t weaken the word or trivialize the suffering of the victims. It’s pretty anal, and selfish to think so.
It’s not replacing the original definition. If anything, using the word keeps it alive and is a reminder of the scum the nazis were. Sure we don’t need reminders now because the Jewish Holocaust and other atrocities they inflicted are still relatively fresh in our memories. But look at our school systems today and the poor job they do in teaching history and tell me that 100 years from now that students will understand that nazis were bad? It might get a one paragraph mention in a 300 page textbook.
I would also argue that the Nazis were so evil and despicable that nothing could ever replace the original meaning of the word.
So, for example, if you say you were ‘raped’ by the sales person (who sold you a bum car), you’re attempting to communicate to the person who had their vagina torn and bruised that the experiences were similar in nature, and she’s ‘uptight’ if she feels it’s being trivialized?
hm. We’re ok here - like I said - you get to use the words you wish, I’ll be free to think you’re an absolute ass. Works for me.
There doesn’t have to be a connection between the two. This isn’t a see saw where if one goes up, the other has to go down.
Your example shows the silliness. It’s like saying if someone ‘beat me’ at trivial pursuit, then I’m conveying my experience was similar in nature to someone getting their face smashed in.
How incredibly pathetic our country has become that victims are now forced to play ‘one up’ against each other. “No, I suffered more than you!”
Words don’t have to have one narrow meaning. Rape means to seize and take away by force. That is a broad definition and applicable.
If you wish to continue thinking the way you do, then create more words.
I am going to sleep now. Of course, I don’t wish to convey that my experience of laying in my bed next to my wife and closing my eyes for, hopefully 7 hours of rest, is similar in nature to the poor stray dog at the humane society who will also ‘sleep’ tonight.
Like I said. You’re free to use words the way you wish. OThers may or may not understand what you mean (do you mean the salesman actually raped you :eek: ) and/or think you’re a jerk. Up to you.
Oooooh, yeah, you’re right. That cop who pulled you over and ticketed you for not wearing a seatbelt, he’s a…a…Nazi. The IRS are a bunch of Nazis for not giving you an extension on your income tax filing. The clerk in Wal-Mart who wouldn’t allow you to return a CD, he’s a Nazi too.
So you don’t think those comparisons weaken the meaning of “Nazi” or trivialize the sufferings of the true victims of Nazism? And you’ve studied history? Think again.
Yue Han has rightly served notice that such usages are offensive. If you don’t want to be viewed as an insensitive, ignorant jerk, save the word for when it’s really warranted.
Damn, wring, that’s twice I’ve agreed with you lately. What is the world coming to?
**I was going to post these two opinions, but I see it’s been covered. (sits back to continue reading)
Why do those of you who use “rape” and “nazi” in place of “mistreated” and “jerk” prefer those words? If you want more force, why not “fucked” and “asshole”?
It seems as though you are not only trading on the associations of those words, but also making a joke. Maybe I’m just out of it, but if I heard Guy A say “that mechanic totally fucked me” and Guy B say “that mechanic totally raped me” I would think that Guy A was angrier that Guy B.
By the way, I can anticipate that some will say that “fucked me” means the same thing in that context as “raped me.” They are pretty close, but I think the point that was made in the OP was that certain words should be reserved for their denotative value. If “fucked” means approximately the same thing, and doesn’t weaken the associations of “rape”, why not use the former?
Note that no one has proposed that a constitutional amendment be passed to restrict the use of these words, only that the use of these words piss us off and make you look like an asshole when you use them around people ouside your frat.
Let me start by saying that I don’t mean to start any shit with these two questions, but I need to know where this would stand…
If I am to say that the Cubs got murdered by the Astros, would I be expressing insensitivity towards murder victims and their loved ones?
If I say that the referee really robbed us on that call, am I being insensitive to the victims of theft?
I think those examples are different for a few reasons:
-
They are already too common to fight against.
-
They aren’t as specific as ‘rape’. If you said ‘the Cubs murdered the Sox like it was a school shooting’ you’d catch shit for it.
-
There are no people who have traumatic memories of being murdered, for obvious reasons.
–John
First of all, where did the assumption that people use “Nazi” to mean “jerk” come from? People use the word “Nazi” to refer to people who are overly controlling, like people who are adamant about correcting other people’s grammer. It’s extremely hyperbolic but since when is hyperbole a crime? People refer to the large victory of one football team over another as “murder”, but does that trivialize actual murder? When a friend tells you she “hates” you when something good happens to you (“a raise? Oh my god, I hate you!”), you know it’s completely
different than when she says the same thing to her abusive estranged father. We’re all smart enough to know that the real Nazis were in an entirely different leauge than your bossy roomate, even if we like to refer to her as such.
As for the rape thing, I never even heard anyone anyone use that word outside of its regular context (and the Earth thing).
That’s good. “I give others permission to consider this funny, so long as Amok wasn’t disagreeing with me”.
By the way, I henceforth demand that all and sundry refrain from calling socially maladjusted people “geeks”. Some of my best friends were victimized by the circus sideshow industry. Believe you me, you wouldn’t bandy that word about so lightly if you ever heard a grown man break down crying as he recounted being forced to bite the head off a live chicken. If our society could have just remembered the suffering of the true geeks of this world, and not trivialized their pain by using it as a mocking label in this way, then Yue Han might have had a much easier time in high school.
Funny…the main times I’ve seen the word “nazi” used here in a non-historical context have been in threads about the mods. Some people were serious about it, others were using it as a joke, ergo “Arnold Winkelried’s a goat-felching nazi commie pinko bastard” [sub]Example only. I saw Arnold’s wrath when Number Six did that to him, and I’m amazed Six is still breathing after Arnold’s vulgar display of power.[/sub] I have also seen the term “raped” thrown about here in non-rape situations. I’ve seen these terms used by newbies and old-timers, people with high and low post counts alike. As an aside it seems to be taken a lot better by people with high post counts than low ones. But then again the poeple with higher post counts seem to know better than to use it seriously to describe a mod. It has been said above that such non-accurate (ie joking, trivial) usage of these kind of words is offensive and vile. So be it. But shouldn’t Yue Han’s wish as to their usage apply to everyone?
Granted, “Nazi” and “rape” are very strong words that shouldn’t be trivialized. But lots of people do the trivializing. Come down equally hard on all of them, or none at all. I get sick of seeing certain people given special treatment, as if the rules don’t apply to them. I’ve seen it happen on other boards, and I’d hate to see it happen here. Yue Han, your desire to protect language is admirable, but I think you’ll find people more receptive if you don’t come barging back in serving notice to not call people nazis or you’ll get them banned. I did notice that you’re not a mod, and have no authority, but you came down on Blue Sky and Briminator like someone who just got felched by a rabid cactus. That was uncalled for. Both of them saw an obvious joke, posted it, and that was that. Lighten up, Yue.
Jeez, what in the name of Jerry Lewis’s genital warts is the problem here? The thread title is explicitly clear: “Don’t call people Nazis”. Didn’t get it the first time, airhead? Here it is again: Don’t fucking call people Nazis!"
Drop this, “But why? I can say ‘Dick’ and ‘Asshole’ and ‘Murder’, can’t I?” Newsflash, Mr. Mensa Applicant… all words aren’t the same!!! You can’t see the difference between any old general “murder” and the ordered extermination of an entire group of people? You can’t see the difference in time scales between something that’s been happening since Cain killed Able, and something that happened just a half-century ago?
Show some goddamned respect, twit. People go through hell, and the experience is traumatizing. People get permanen scars, physically, mentally, and emotionally. Don’t be the sort of ass who makes your whining, pathetic, “Oh, woe is me!” bullshit seem as terrible as being tossed into a death camp.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled program… and I think Carthage must be destroyed.
Darien, you are an idiot. That’s the only solution I can see here. The portion about me being a mod and banning people was a sarcastic response to the implication that I am ‘the PC police.’ If I’m not a mod, I can’t ban you.
Where the hell am I dispensing special treatment? If I read someone misusing these words, I will complain about it. Anyone. If in the past, ‘regs’ got away with it, that’s because I wasn’t fucking here. I did not come down especially hard on Mr. Blue Sky or Briminator… I even told Mr. Blue Sky it was not a big deal that he missed the sarcasm.
Doghouse:
No, moron, I didn’t say anything about permission. As a joke, it was funny. If it was meant to be a serious argument against my OP, then I had a counter-argument. Christ.
As for your ‘geek’ comment, my objections to how it is different from Nazi and rape are the same as they were when I explained how I felt that usage of murder is different from Nazi or rape, and your implication that I was unpopular in high school and therefore my opinion isn’t worth listening to is beneath you or anyone else posting at the SDMB.
serak
I can’t help it that you’ve never heard some one say, “Man, that test sucked, it really raped me.” Your lack of experience doesn’t really have any bearing on this, though. In the same vein, Nazi is used to mean ‘jerk’ a lot, because people see anyone who disagrees with them as limiting their free speech.
So you get “You think I’m wrong about the magical elves on the moon, you’re such a Nazi!!! Quit repressing me!”
And llastly, all you dickheads who are proposing your sarcastic counterexamples, feel free to go around the boards telling people off if you really feel that way. Jesus, it’s not like I’m trying to make this a SDMB rule; I’m just saying, if you do this you will piss me off and I will yell at you.
–John