Because then they can’t whine, “But nobody tooooold meeeeee.”
Did we have any people like that in this thread? (Who complained about having to take classes that “didn’t apply” to what they wanted to do?) This thing was started so long ago, I can’t even remember.
Captain Midnight and maybe a few others who felt shakespeare had nothing of import to say.
I’d totally sign up for duel enrollment.
I want to congratulate you anyway and despite the disappointance for doing such a good job. All those poor High school students who were badly educated at their sub-standard High School and thus have wrong or no expectations on how to write a paper (as the defenders of plagarism in this thread have argued) have no excuse with your thorough approach. Anybody intelligent enough to belong in college would realize that they need help to learn writing an essay instead of just copying it after your dedicated approach.
Our cash-strapped CA campus lets 'em in if they can breathe a nitrogen-oxygen atmosphere, as far as I can discern. We might as well produce marketing materials that say INTELLIGENCE NOT REQUIRED!
That was *this *thread? Wow. Fortunately, **Captain Midnight **has now opened his fucking mouth enough times to firmly fix himself in my memory as a disgusting, moronic bigot, so I now remember to give his posts exactly as much regard as they deserve.
Going along grading tonight, la la la–oops. See, when you and your friend collaborate on the online quiz, you should double-check that when you cut and paste each others’ work you aren’t picking up phrases that a) have incorrectly spelled words, in b) the same order in your phrases, used in c) increasingly bizarre ways as you attempt to disguise your cheating by altering sentence structure, rendering your prose completely nonsensical. Bonus: d) if you’re going to pull the name of a theory that’s not in my notes from the Internet, which is fine with me, you probably should not both use the same uncommon term because I actually know what this stuff means and repeated nomenclature that I didn’t give you kinda jumps out at me.
If they were smart enough to disguise their cheating, they wouldn’t have to cheat.
I once noticed out of the corner of my eye that a classmate was copying my answers for a test on the bones in the skull. I wrote out random nonsense answers in clear block print and left the completed page face up for a minute. As soon as she turned in her paper I put the right answers.
This was a 200 level college class. She must have had an interesting conversation with the professor later to explain why she thought the femur, lupus and occidental were all bones in the face.
You are a genius. If I had a student tell me they did this, I’d give them extra credit for every wacko answer that the other student gave.
That’s stupid, and elitist to boot. I don’t understand where people get this idea that knowing more about the subject means I have to defer to you when I believe you are wrong. Just because you have a degree doesn’t mean anything about whether your requirements are just or not. The only reason anyone listen authority over them, and you could therefore hurt them.
But, of course, as teachers are slowly learning, you don’t really have any power, as the student is the one who pays for the classes. That’s why you’re getting stuck with not being able to fail people–because you did pointless things one too many times and got the people who pay you pissed off enough not to pay you.
Saying I know more than you so you have to do what I say is not an an argument that means anything, and as a supposed intellectual, you should know this. And if you can’t defend why you do something, you should also be smart enough to know that there is no actual reason to do it.
As I said, we students are already showing what we think of useless requirements. If you can’t convince us that they are useful, you won’t get paid to do them. Don’t like it? Tough shit.
The problem is that, in many cases, the people criticizing these requirements don’t even know enough about the subject matter to know whether they are just or not.
If the people who have spent years studying their subjects and producing original research and teaching students say that attendance and participation is an essential component of the course, and that students can only attain an adequate understanding of the material by being present and participating in class, then why should their determination be overruled by someone who doesn’t know the material or what it takes to understand it?
In some cases, these critics are college freshmen who know so little that they don’t even know how little they know. The very idea of the university is predicated on the notion that the people doing the teaching know more than the people taking the classes about their subject matter and about what it takes to achieve proficiency in the subject. I don’t know about you, but when i was a college freshman i actually appreciated the fact that my professors knew more than i did, because i was there to learn from them. In some cases, just reading the book and turning up for exams simply isn’t sufficient, and you are required to demonstrate your understanding in other ways, like participating in class discussions on a regular basis.
As for the accusation of elitism: what the fuck do you think university is, except an exercise in intellectual elitism? The whole enterprise is founded on the notion that some things are hard, that there is a level of understanding that not everyone can cope with, and that people who want to attain a certain level of knowledge and understanding in some areas will most likely get it at a university. This doesn’t make university graduates (or university teachers) better people. It doesn’t even necessarily mean that they’re smarter. But the whole system is based on the idea of experience and expertise, and on the notion that with that experience and expertise comes a certain authority to determine how best to pass on knowledge in certain subjects.
I don’t know where you go to school, but i have never once, in teaching classes at both private and public universities, been told that i can’t fail someone.
I realize that this has happened in some places, but if you’re arguing that it’s a good thing, i submit that you have no clue about what education actually means, or about what university standards entail. The idea that someone gets to pass just because they’ve paid is the most anti-intellectual idiocy i can imagine. And, while teachers are responsible for maintaining a level of professionalism and should be responsive to student needs, the idea that students should get to dictate content or pedagogical strategy is something that only an idiot would advocate.
But i can defend it. I have. The fact that you (generic you) think that passing the exam should be enough doesn’t mean you’re correct. And the fact that my class conflicts with your bong sessions is not my problem. You know when you see the syllabus on the first day that attendance at a certain number of meetings is required. If you can’t cope with that, don’t enroll.
I’m not denying that your consumerist attitude is having some effect on the American education system. The main effect it’s having, of course, is lowering standards and therefore the value of the degree you’re paying for. Congratulations.
She should have known better - the answer is never “lupus”.
Well - I just thought I’d point out that plagiarizing is NOT limited to students. I work in an industry that has a professional accreditation. To get this, you have to 1) show so many years of relevant professional work, 2) pass an 8-hour detailed exam, and 3) submit an original paper. The people trying to get this certification are all trained professionals with college degrees and years of work experience.
Lately - I’ve been volunteering as a grader for the profession certification papers. It’s basically filling out a form to confirm that they covered basic elements, and that the paper shows they understand the field we are in. It’s a pretty low bar to have to climb over, compared to the exam (which really is pretty difficult). And yet 2 of the last 5 papers I’ve read have had some plagiarism. One wasn’t too bad - just a paragraph or so copied from an unattributed source that I found in about 3 minutes of Googling.
But the 2nd one - oh boy! It was completely copied from a textbook published in 1998. And I mean COMPLETELY. Hell - it had a reference to Chapter 5, right there in the text, of a 2500 word essay. They weren’t even good at cheating, for crying out loud.
Anyway - for those who think our students suck, allow me to introduce you to our trained and experienced professionals.
The Annals of Internal Medicine had a study earlier this year that showed that 5% of personal statements submitted for residency applications were plagiarized. We’re not talking some research paper. This is the basic “here’s why I want to train at your program and be a pediatrician [cardiologist/obstretician/dermatologist]”. These people couldn’t even do that without stealing personal anecdotes.
I**'m not denying that your consumerist attitude is having some effect on the American education system. The main effect it’s having, of course, is lowering standards and therefore the value of the degree you’re paying for. Congratulations.**
Amen, amen, amen. And another AMEN thrown in for good measure. I also teach in a college, and you are 100% spot on, mhendo.
I am not a teacher, but I also commend this statement.
A third commendation. This is one of the many reasons I’m trying to transition out of higher ed and into another field. I don’t want to stick around and keep rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.
You still have yet to prove your point that attending class means anything. You claim there is some level of knowledge that you can’t test for. I reject that. There are plenty of testing methods you can use that will tell if someone has a working knowledge of something, or is just regurgitating memorized facts. On the other hand, every single college student on the planet knows how to fake participation.
Yes, I am saying that it’s a good thing that teachers are being held accountable. Unchecked authority is always bad. The fact that the students have a recourse if you mistreat them is always good. I’d prefer a better recourse than money, but it seems that it’s the only one that is working. Why? Because teachers think more highly of themselves than the evidence allows (the definition of elitist).
Authority never exists in a vacuum. If you are in authority over me, it’s because I have volunteered to let you be in authority over me. And, if you abuse that authority, and your institution has no way of dealing with that, it’s right that your institution fails. As long as there are jobs that require the education, some system of education will spring up, hopefully with more humble instructors and strategies in place to deal with those who abuse their authority.
As it is right now, you just told someone that “I’m the teacher. I’m always right, because I’ve got education, and you don’t. Hahaha.” And that attitude is abusing your power. You should be smart enough to design a test that checks your student’s knowledge, and, if they ace it, you should not give them shit because you didn’t ascertain that knowledge in your preferred and less accurate manner.
To be quite honest, i’m not interested in proving my point to a dullard such as you. If you were one of my students, i’d smile, grit my teeth, and proceed to politely and clearly explain, in words of fewer than three syllables, some of the reasons behind my grading system. But you’re not, praise Og. You’re some dunderhead on a message board who doesn’t know what the fuck he’s talking about.
I have never once abused my authority as a teacher. I take the job seriously, and fully support institutions that require high standards of professionalism in the classroom. I also get excellent reviews, on the whole, from my students. Furthermore, quite a few of those reviews are the kind that i value most: reviews that say things like, “His class is hard, and he expects a lot, but i really learned a lot in this class,” and “There is a lot of reading, and this class is not an easy A, but he’s a good teacher.”
But i’ve failed students before, and i’ll fail them again. Because i’m hired to maintain standards. You get an F for this thread. Now go fetch me a martini, peon.