I live in Japan. My wife is Japanese. I have lots of Japanese friends.
I’ll take good odds that the “average” Japanese person’s English is much better than your Japanese.
To directly answer your question:
Many Japanese speak decent or proficient English, some better than native English speakers. Many more speak very basic English, like common words and phrases that they remember from school (English is taught in schools). Some don’t speak any English at all.
Just like every other country in relationship to every other language on Earth.
Well, he knew the written language. He was, quite frankly, never taught the real spoken language. That’s the thing about how the Japanese teach English – they “Japanicize” the pronunciation. So, “Hello, how are you doing?” becomes “Haroo, hau aru yuu duuingu?” But no English speaker actually talks that way – so, when Japanese do get into a conversation, they don’t recognize what’s being said to them! When you aren’t even taught the proper way to say “Hello,” you’re kinda screwed from the start.
I took Spanish, Japanese, Russian and German – my classes never “English-ized” the pronunciation. I learned the proper way to say things, and when I hear those languages now, I can recognize the words I was taught. I imagine that when you learned English, it wasn’t “Swedish-ized.” But Japanese do that sort of thing – and they do it with all languages, not just English.
In fact, the one Japanese guy I know who speaks English well didn’t learn it from going to school. He watched American movies, etc., as a teenager and realized that Tom Cruise wasn’t saying “Zattsu raito Aisuman, Ai emu deenjerasu!” So he taught himself. He even got good enough that he can put on a fake Liverpool accent!
Things may get better, though, as more foreigners start to live in Japan. Also, I believe there’s a movement afoot to start teaching English – including conversational English – at a younger age.
Of course, you realize that Sweden is one of those countries where English-speaking visitors are amazed over how well “everyone” speaks English, right? Maybe instead of asking why the Japanese don’t speak English as well as the Swedes, we should ask why you’re setting the bar so high…
Two weeks ago I visited a cardiologist here in Rouen (France). He was about 35, and did not speak a word of English.
Scnadinavian countries and Holland tend to have a far higher portion of the population who speak English than most non-English speaking countries in the world.
You’re forgetting the fact that the Swedish schooling system is [reputedly] excellent. It’s famous in Europe for that.
Also - many of the Northern European countries (Germany upwards) were all invaded by the Saxons who spoke a version of German (Frei- something). Therefore modern English, modern German, etcetra are all derived from this. Therefore the Swedish national language is a great deal closer to English than Japanese which is derived from a completely different system of communication.
As for statistics, you might want to check out some geography websites as they tend to concern themselves with that stuff. (yeah I know, I’m helpful, aren’t I )
Yes. Having lived in the country for nearly 8 years, I daresay I have encountered more Japanese people than will be found at a Magic the Gathering convention.
I also note I don’t think I have interpreted Sublight and Back Lot Brawls comments the same way you have. Perhaps I’m think of “speaking English” as meaning well enough to get the basic meaning across, and you are thinking of it as “being able to hold a decent conversation”. There’s a wide difference there.
Perhaps you could clarify which meaning (or another one entirely, if needed) you are thinking about?
I’ll note that Japan is not the only non-US country I’ve had the pleasure of visiting or living in, and I don’t think that the average Japanese person’s English skills are any worse (or better) than the average, say, Korean persons (another country I enjoyed living in not too long ago).
That being said, if I based my opinion on online games (which I do play from time to time), I would think no one spoke English:
>>tvb?
>>k
>>a/s/l?
>>STFU
>>tvb
>>clk n
>>k
>>k
>>gla
>>gl
>>hf
I’m not. I know Sweden is a good English-speaking country (although we can’t hold a candle to the Netherlands). I’m not comparing the Japanese to the Swedes, but to every other developed country I know of, and a few developing ones.
Sublight said his ten-year students were stumped by “How are you doing?”. That indicates a fairly low ability, I’d say. Back Lot Brawl said his host father understood written English well, but spoken English not at all, basically.
Well, if the guy himself thinks the most pertinent thing we need to know about him is “no english please”, then I think he qualifies as a non-English speaker.
Let’s just clarify: It’s not that I feel the Japanese should know English. I don’t think they have some obligation to learn or teach English. I’m not going to lead a revolution to overthrow the Japanese government and set up an English-teaching one in its stead. In fact, I don’t care one way or the other. I just made an observation, found it strange, and wanted to ask if the observation reflected reality, and if so, why reality was that way.
As of now, Sublight, who lives in Japan, seems to agree with my observation. Back Lot Brawl has lived there and appears to agree partly. You live in Japan and don’t agree. I’d really like to see some statistics, or Japanese people chiming in.
Again, no solid evidence. Just an opinion. To use your methodology for comparing the language skills of nations: Based on a survey of the four Japanese people I know, 100% of the Japanese population speaks English, while 25% of Japanese speak fluent Hungarian.
I work in a British office of a Japanese corporation, and have to communicate regularly with Japanese people (mainly engineers) in both writing and speech. My experience is that most Japanese employees of the company are able to read and write basic English (almost certainly better than I can write French, which I studied for 5 years at school). Many are also capable of speaking English to varying degrees.
Language teaching at Japanese schools is far more extensive than in the UK or US, with compulsory English classes for many years. It may be reasonable for PriceGuy as a Swede to criticise their grasp of foreign languages, being raised in a country where people are exposed to spoken English continually from an early age, but compared to the linguistic abilities of British or Americans, the Japanese have nothing to be ashamed of (especially as English is far closer to Swedish [and almost any other European language] than to Japanese, in terms of vocabulary, grammar, and particularly phonology.)
Going back to the OP, I’m trying to answer the question that was asked – since this is GQ:
Some do. Some don’t.
Just fine. The ones who need to know it do (there are 6 Japanese workers in my office, they all have at least “fair” English ability - that is, I can hold a casual conversation with any one of them in English).
The ones who don’t need English, don’t use it. We get by on my pathetic Japanese skills (unless my wife is there to translate).
I
I think your observation is…limited at best.
As a sort of example: I really like death/black metal, but I don’t think for one second every band from Gothenberg sounds like In Flames or Dark Tranquility. (Both of which rule, BTW)
Another one on the “Japanese can so speak English” side. Good.
This flies in the face of what others have said. Who’s right?
Can somebody answer two questions of mine:
Why do people continually BiCapitalize my username? What can be done about this?
What’s with not reading the thread prior to posting? I’ve already said that I don’t compare the Japanese with the Swedish, and I definitely do not criticize anyone.
I made an observation and asked for confirmation or denial of that observation. Why does this seem to offend people? If I’d asked why Germans don’t hunt as much boar as they did a hundred years ago, would you have assumed I thought Germans should hunt boar more often? If I’d asked why no American I’d ever met had worn a pink cummerbund, would you have chided me for demanding that Americans wear pink cummerbunds?
The Scandinavian languages, apart from Finnish, are part of the Germanic family, as is Dutch and English. Your version of history doesn’t compute, and it’s widely regarded that the close relationship between Scandinavian and English is largely due to the Normands (Northern men…) who were of Scandinavian origin.
Not knowing a lot about Japanese, I still want to contribute by adding a parallell about Spanish.
I lived in Spain between '91-'94. My then SO has a bachelors degree in philology and another in English. On top of that she passed the teachers exam and her profession is teaching advanced Spanish to foreigners. She speaks very good, but very accented English. Her exposure to people from other countries have helped with this. When I first got to know her, I assumed that most people with university degrees would be able to speak English. Not so. In fact, most blue collar workers will speak no or very little English, apart from people working in the tourist industry, who also have contact with the tourists (i.e. the girl working the reception desk at a hotell will speak passable English, the maid will not).
Having come out of long isolation and dictatorship, I then assumed that people who went on to higher studies, would speak English. Not so. Well then, thought I, seeing how my girlfriends speak good English, at least those with a degree in English will speak it.
Not even close.
I met a ladu who taught English to kids early in school. We were at some party and I happened to ask if someone knew of a good place where I could get a haircut. Her response:
[extremely thick Spanish accent]
Why you want cut hair? It is so small!
[/extremely thick Spanish accent]
People are not taught to speak English. They are taught the theory of English. An exam might have a question like: ‘Describe all possible ways to use the preposition if’. And the kids are supposed to answer in Spanish.
Add that all tv is dubbed, all movies are dubbed, people are not exposed to English on an everyday basis, as they are in Scandinavia and Holland. They don’t hear the language and mimic it, when they are kids. Their brains and ears don’t get used to the melody.
A lot of times I found myself Spanish-fying English to make myself understood. If I spoke Spanish and an English name or term came up, people would not get it, if I didn’t use Spanish sounds. So Discovery Channel would be Disco- Berry Chanel. I heard on SPanish radio a few years ago, the DJ talking about Britt-neigh E-spe-ars.
Another factor is that Spanish is a huge language. It makes sense translating books on engineering and physics for Spanish universities. With Swedish, the language is so small, there is no point in translating a huge volume that might sell 75 copies a year. So Swedish students of college level and higher are required to read and speak English more or less fluently.
Spanish kids have to take a second language for eight years: English or French. The story with those who took French is the same as those who took English (maybe apart from kids growing up in Catalunya).
Without any evidence, I propose that the situation might be similar in Japan. Old, proud culture. Large language (though geographically more limited than Spanish) and a strong economy.
Never heard of them. Anyway, every Japanese person (and no, they aren’t that many) I’ve interacted with has had, at best, a poor grasp of the English language. I asked friends about this, some of which had visited Japan, and they all agreed. I asked to find out if it was just us or if this is in fact the case.
Yes, our sample was limited. Mine and most of theirs was Magic players, but they tend to belong to a segment of society which, in other countries, are better than the average at such things as speaking foreign languages, especially English. They had, however, interacted with hotel staff, restaurant staff and the odd man-in-the-street, and corroborated my observations. That’s the basis of my question.
About those German workers at the McDonalds. They were in Germany, right? And they spoke German, correct? I don’t see the problem. I’m sorry you hate their language, perhaps you should have tried using it anyway. Or, if you wish to be obstinate, you could just point at the menu and grunt.
Maybe when it comes to English the Japanese “just hate the fucking language.” I’m sure you can empathize with that.
And you never go abroad unless you’re fluent in the local language? Of course not. Sorry I asked. What an uncouth barbarian I am.
I happened to have studied some German. A lot of people haven’t. Are you telling me that the staff at a McDonald’s located on the freaking autobahn never had non-German speakers as customers?
If I’m approached on the street by an obvious tourist who speaks to me in English, do I respond in Swedish? Of course not. That would be impolite, not to mention stupid. If I take a call at work and the customer speaks English, do I respond in Swedish? Of course not. That would mean my job.
Yeah, the whole society hates English, so it isn’t taught. Sounds likely.
Everybody, let’s face it: English is a big fucking language. As Cecil says, it’s essential in science, technology, economics, and finance. It is the language to learn if you want to have a fighting chance to be understood in virtually every country on Earth. That’s why it’s strange (note: strange, not wrong or heinous or ugly or immoral) if Japanese people don’t know it.
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