I don’t socialize with Japanese people much. The half a planet between our countries is just too big a barrier. However, everyone I know who has or does, says the same thing: they don’t speak English.
I play an online game sometimes. Every player has a text snippet presenting themselves. A lot of them read something like “I’m Japanese. I don’t speak English”. I play the card game “Magic the Gathering” and some of my friends have travelled all over the world to play, and they say you can never make smalltalk with a Japanese opponent, as they don’t speak any English. And I just read an interview with a Japanese Magic player and he was asked how come he could start playing before there were Japanese Magic cards. Well, there are no Swedish Magic cards and there are a lot of good Swedish players.
Seriously, don’t Japanese people learn English? It seems strange for a country that deals so much in trade and megacorporate stuff, acting all over the world, to not teach its schoolchildren English, the de facto world language. How do they get by without it?
They don’t speak English because they have a perfectly servicable language of their own.
The only reason they have to put more effort into their English studies than needed to get a passing grade (which is not very much - English classes in Japanese schools are a joke) is if they’re going to be dealing a lot with people with whom their only common language is English. If they’re staying in Japan, they’re most likely to deal with other Japanese persons, or foreigners who’ve learned Japanese. If they’re going abroad, they’re better off learning the local language where they’re going.
But all this applies to every country in the world, and yet most other developed countries manage to teach English. How can the Japanese be so successful in international business without knowing English?
Surely, it can’t be easier to learn German the moment your corporation wants to open an office in Germany than just learning English in school?
I believe (but please don’t quote me on this" that English is a required language in Japanese schools. Thing is, it’s learned mainly by rote, with an emphasis on vocabulary and grammar, but not its use in conversation. Conversational and written Japanese is much more flowery than English and most western languages, which ae usually spoken and written in a straightforward manner. English as spoken and written by the Japanese often seems very awkward to native English-speakers, because it’s usually a direct translation from the flowery Japanese.
My attempt at Engrish … a shirt label in North America might read:
Gap
Medium
100% Cotton
Made in Mexico
where in Japan, it’ll read:
Gap
Medium fitting for medium size people only please
Cotton made is 100% for you joyous comfort and pleasure style
Made by Mexico people
It might sound strange to an English speaker, but to the Japanese, it’s perfectly normal.
Japanese and English are (obviously) very different languages. It’s not easy for a native speaker of one of the languages to “pick up” the other.
Do you know Japanese? How many of your native English speaking friends know Japanese?
It’s true that English is a widely used and accepted language and that many countries teach it in their school systems starting early in grade school. However, if you live in Japan (where everyone speaks Japanese – a language that you easily acquired during the first few years of your life), why would you go through the trouble of learning a very complex language just to communicate with another gamer (which requires little or no language interaction at all).
Simply put, languages are hard to learn after the first few years (particularly languages with phonemes not common to one’s native language).
If I’m in charge of a company and opening a branch in Germany, I’ll send people who know German to set it up, not insist that the Germans have to start teaching their chindren English.
Foreign companies in Japan do the same thing, or a translator is present. And Japanese companies do the same thing when they operate outside Japan. You don’t need the whole nation to be fluent in a language to get money from people who speak that language - just a few people in your employ.
Obviously not, and never said I did. In fact I was at a McDonald’s in Germany the other month and the staff there wasn’t just monolingual but excessively stupid as well. When five guys enter your restaurant conversing in a totally foreign language and then address you in English, what is the point of responding in German, when it is abundantly clear that they do not understand? Even improvised sign language would have been better, but no, they kept speaking German, not even slowing down or attempting to speak extra clearly. This would actually have helped my understanding of them quite a bit, since I have studied German. I just happen to hate the fucking language.
However, the only developed country I’ve heard of where the general population has such a poor grasp of English is Japan. Take the Magic players I mentioned, for example. Magic players everywhere tend to be young, intelligent, and male. I’ve played against Austrians, Czechs, Germans, Frenchmen, Danes, a Brasilian, Dutchmen, Belgians and probably a couple of other nationalities, and we could all converse in English. With Japanese people from the same group, this is impossible. I understand why North Koreans or rural Chinese don’t speak English, but the Japanese?
xiaoping, I’m not implying that the Japanese should learn English in order to communicate with another gamer. I think it’s strange that they don’t learn it since it is, in fact, the international language of business. Don’t they want to be able to communicate directly with their foreign associates, rather than having to go through an interpreter? And from what I know of Japanese education, it isn’t exactly simplified to get the students out of doing hard work.
Also, I’m not a native English speaker; nor are my friends.
If a Japanese person is going to be dealing, a lot, with people who don’t speak Japanese, they’ll learn those peoples’ language. The same way I’d learn Japanese if I was going there. Private study, payed for by me/them or my/their employer.
It’s really rather simple. If you’re going to deal a lot with people that don’t speak your language, learn theirs. If not, and you have no other interest in learning a language not your own, there’s no reason to bother.
In addition to Tengu’s point about the effort put into their studies, remember that their teachers are also Japanese who put the same effort into learning English when they were students (seriously. I saw a news report about a school whose students were doing exceptionally well in English. The teacher’s example sentence on the blackboard had at least three grammar mistakes.)
The college entrance exams (which is what many students view as the only reason to go to school, unfortunately) only test English grammar, focusing mainly on obscure rules and terminology, with next to no emphasis on actual communication skills. Many of my conversational English students studied for ten years and yet were caught flat-footed by “Hi, how are you doing?” A lot of people are pretty good at reading English (unless it uses a lot of slang), but not so great at speaking, listening or writing.
Another problem I’ve noticed in Japan is that a lot of people have a big fear of making mistakes, especially in front of people they don’t know. For many, not trying at all is better than trying and failing. So even if they could communicate (not perfectly, but still understandably), they don’t have enough confidence to try and get their message across.
I guess I shouldn’t complain too much. Nine-tenths of my income is due to being a native English speaker.
No but they a) speak enough English to be able to take an order for a freaking hamburger in English and b) do not speak Swedish with people who are obviously not Swedish speakers.
While Tengu has his stroke, let me rephrase my question: why is Japan different from other developed countries in that the Japanese don’t speak English? I have been given a variety of reason why English isn’t taught (or isn’t taught more than it is), but these all apply to all other nations as well, and yet these other nations teach English. I’m asking for the difference between Japan and all the other nations. Sublight has given me cultural reasons, and I suppose that is the answer.
First of all, in Japan, there’s a difference between “English” and “English Conversation” – they’re taught as different classes.
When I stayed with a host family in Japan, my host father couldn’t understand a word I spoke in English. But when I wrote things down on paper, he understood.
I’ll give an example of this phenomenon the opposite way. I started studying Japanese on my own when I was a teenager. I learned the characters, rules of grammar, etc., and got so I could read it somewhat well. However, I couldn’t hold a conversation to save my life, because there was simply no one to talk to to build up my skills. It wasn’t till I went to Japan and was immersed in the culture that my skills improved.
There aren’t all that many Japanese speakers running around America, just like there aren’t all that many English speakers running around Japan. You can read all the manga you want, but that won’t improve your conversation skills any. Similarly, you can read Sports Illustrated or Slam magazine in Japan, but that won’t help you speak better conversational English.
People in Europe and South America have an advantage because they a) come into contact with more English speakers b) their languages are closer to English and c) their educational system does a much better job of teaching English. The Japanese educational system does quite a lousy job of teaching English. They may be required to teach it, but they don’t teach it well.
I’ll answer for Priceguy, since we’re in the same country (and town?). I can tell you for sure that any Swedish kid working for MickyD will have enough knowledge of English to be able to handle an order.
In fact, most of them will be able to carry on an ‘intelligent conversation’ in English.
Nope, just anecdotes. Since the premise hasn’t been challenged (rather, all posters seem to agree with the premise and use it as presupposed when arguing) I’ve posted as if it were true. I’ll happily receive statistics showing that the level of ability in conversational English is as high in Japan as in, say, Sweden, if anyone has them.
