Don't let your kids pay for the delivery pizza

Ok, I’m hearing a lot of repeated point-counter point here. Let’s play a game. It’s called The Law of Servers say…

The Servers say… You need to tip me at least 15%, granted that you food arrives hot, is what you want, your server checks on your food after it’s delivered, and gives you the option of drink refills. Service should also curteous and prompt. If all of these things are done, and nothing overtly negative occurs, it is not unreasonable to expect the customer to tip 15%. *all arguments are off in non-US countries, at which case, one should refer to local custom.

The Servers say… I don’t really try with habitually bad tippers because catering to any table is taking time away from the rest of my section. If I have a better-then-reasonable assumption that you are going to give me a bad tip (as defined as less than 10%, or less than 15% on large parties or large checks) then the likelyhood is that I am going to lose money on that table. And even if I do NOT lose money on the table (which may be the case if you don’t have a large tip out) I AM going to lose time, which could be better used to give stellar service to the rest of the tables in my section. Even if I’m not losing money, the other tables will suffer because I’m spending time and energy on the bad tipper. This does NOT mean that it’s OK to withhold or alter the food they pay for, but it does mean that I am not required to put any effort into them over and above the actual act of delivering the food they ordered in a somewhat-timely fashion. (I say “somewhat-timely” because I’m not going to bust my ass running from the dining room to the kitchen to make sure their plate doesn’t hit the lights if I’m sure this donkey is going to waste my time, which could be better spent giving better service to the rest of the diningroom. )

The Servers say… 15% is the minimum because most places have a tip out policy, where you are required to tip a set amount to all or some of the following: bussers, expeditor (aka: food runners, or expo), bar tender, bar manager, and sometimes the kitchen. Generally, the tip out can run anywhere from 5-25%. This percentage is taken not from the tips you recieved, but from food you sold. This is because it’s way easy for servers to lie about the tips they recieved, as cash is involved and a server or busser can easily pocket the cash and say they never got tipped on that meal. Tax works the same way, although you are only taxed (in my state, Vermont,) 12% on your total sales. 15% is not some kind of arbitrary number invented by the restaurant industry to piss customers off, it’s what servers need to get in order to meet tip outs and tax, AND walk with a profit.

The Servers say… If I give you bad service (as defined in our second law), for the love of Job, TELL US. I generally know if I’ve done a bad job, but if I am unaware that the chef made you a ham sandwich, rather than a turkey sandwich, and you don’t say anything, and then punish me by badly tipping, I learn nothing from the experiance, and you’ve also robbed me of the ability to make it up to you. Yes, I try and catch as many kitchen mistakes as possible. But it happens that one slips by. I’d sure like to give you your drinks for free, or offer you a free desert to make up for it. Which I can’t do if you, the customer, decide to be all passive-agressive and leave a penny. And if the service is RUDE, tell the manager. One bad server in a restaurant can ruin it for the rest of the GOOD servers. But managers would be more likely to listen to customers than the rest of us bitching about how unprofessional Betty is. The advantage of this is that you, the customer, is likely to get something out of it. Free appetizer, or something. Of course, I have a great manager who knows who his great servers are, and knows when a complaining customer is just trying to get free food. And he has no problem telling the customer off if he is sure the customer is full of shit.

Example: I had two tables of two. Table A was a husband and wife, who – while not regulars – had been in our restaurant about once a month over the past two or three months. Table B were two women. Both tables ordered one entree a person. Table B had a coupon, so they were getting one entree free. Both tables recieved the same great service, both had water refilled and drink orders run from the bar, both meals were checked on, and both said the food was great. At the end of both meals, Table B complained that the portions were too small. I went to get the manager. But before he could get to the table, Table A had told table B that they were full of shit, that the portions were generous and that they ALWAYS took food home. More over, they were already getting one full entree free at a great restaurant. Table A told Table B they were “spoiled” and that "they should be ashamed of themselves. Needless to say, Table B left me 20% on what the pre-discounted price was, and scampered out before my manager got a hold of them. Which was a shame, because if you think what the other TABLE had said to them was rough, my manager would have ripped them a new one.

Which leads me to my last law of Servers, which hasn’t been discussed yet…
The Servers say… If you have a discount of ANY kind, coupon, discount card, etc., the CORRECT thing to do is to tip 15% on the pre-discounted price.

Example: Meal comes to $100. Discount card gets you a 20% discount, bringing the new total to $80. You do NOT tip 15% on $80, you tip 15% on $100. This is usually in the fine print in any of these “entertainment” books or the like. The reason for this is that Management decides to run discounts or ads, servers don’t. The service you recieve is equal to the service you’d recieve if you had paid the full price. The FOOD is discounted, not the service.

The following arguments are boring and have been discussed before:
A.) You’re paid to do your job. So I don’t have to tip you 15%.
No. I’m paid below minumum wage because the United States Federal Labor law has the faith in the average consumer to tip 15%. If the average consumer doesn’t do this, then the server is making BELOW Federal minimum wage.

B.) Why should I tip a delivery person or server when I don’t tip Joe the Grocer?
Joe doesn’t bring your food to your house. There’s a reason why McDonald’s and Burger King are the two largest chains: the food is fast and you don’t have to pay for service. But if you want to be waited on, and desire a certain level of food/wine knowledge, then either be prepared to tip 15% or go to McDonald’s.

C.) The system is stupid. I will not bow to the system!
While I applaude your rebel spirit, I suggest you attempt some real system’s change instead of punishing the innocent servers. Should we ALSO have Universal Health care in this country? Yea. But that doesn’t justify my ripping off an insurance company or doctor because I disagree with the system. Go ahead, contact your Congressman or Senator and get the Federal gratuity minimum wage raised.

D.) I don’t live in the US. You people are savages!
Yes. But let’s be honest. The tipping system is low on my list of Evil Things America Does. And that’s the way it is. So we have to deal with it. Don’t shoot the messanger.

Now, can the “Nah-uh…” “Yea- HUH!” arguments cease?

But mostly because I feel like bragging…based on my sales, I made 22% average table tip today. That means for every table that tipped me 15%, another table tipped me 29%. I’m a SOOPA STAAAA! Merry Christmas to ME.

Cheers Riddles.

In honor of this thread, I left a $6 tip on a $22 tab this afternoon at Ponderosa. Belch.

Also I prefer to tip on the basis of service rather then price. Over the years hoiwever I modified my tipping methods:

Unless service was horrible and the fault of the waitstaff they will get 10% plus

Whatever else I feel their service was worth regardless of the cost of the meal.

Using this method I have tipped as little as 10% or as much as 50%.

Also another thing is my wife and I usually order water instead of soda or other drinks. I figure that drinks are high profit items and the resteraunt looses out with us ordering water (which I like) but the wait staff should not be penlized. Now if they choose to serve me in that little water glass and it runs dry - it is going to come out of their tip.

Also I have written on CC receipts the reason for a low (10%) tip many times and the majority of times is “didn’t refill water glass.”

We always tip well. Always. Always. Even when the waitress does a horrible job, my husband will not tip less than 15%. This, of course, makes us very popular at places we eat often, and the service just gets better and better. Sometimes we even get free food.
We used to go out with another couple who never tipped. His reasoning was that he doesn’t get tips to do his job (he worked in retail) why should they? I didn’t realize this the first tme we went out, and I was deeply embarassed when he left without tipping. Thereafter, my husband made sure to leave the table last so that he could leave some money.

Pizza delivery drives me crazy. We never know how much to tip, and my confusion is compounded by the fact that the place isliterally across the street. They could walk it over if they wanted. So we tip whatever spare change we have which is usually between 3-5. Judging from this thread, that’s enough.

I’ve got a question about this one:

Please explain to me why in this case, the tip is not based on the price of the food. I don’t have a problem tipping ( I don’t much like the system, but that’s what we’ve got) , but I don’t understand why I’m supposed to tip based on the price of the meal, unless I get a discount. Seriously. If I’m supposed to tip twice as much for the $50 meal that takes the same amount of work as the $25 meal, then I should base my tip on the discounted price.

When this happend I will usually spit the price with the waitstaff. Sometimes I think I should make a deal ahead of time - hey anythign you can comp me, I’ll tip you 1/2 the value.
doreen read my post about 2 up from yours. I too think that the value of the tip should be based on the service not the bill. I will (for my 10% rule above) tip on the prediscount adn pretax price. I will NOT tip on tax!

Well, I worked in a family restaraunt oh so many years ago, and I saw loads of crap get put in people’s food - spit, snot, phlem, etc. etc. Stuff dropped on the floor/garbage can/dirty dishes and then sent out to tables. Sadly, this is not an urban legend - at least not at the place I worked at.

For the record, I never did anything thing like this to anyone, ever. Also, I had my share of regulars that would specifically ask to sit in my section. Not all of them were good tippers, but they all got my best service because they were fun, nice people. A couple of guys used to come in every weekend, and consistantly left me a $2 tip - about 7%. However, I always gave them great service, free food, extra goodies, etc. because they were nice and supportive. Not EVERYTHING is about money - if you make my day more pleasant, that’s worth some good service, regardless of how much $$ I wind up with.

On a Saturday or a Sunday, I would typically clear about $150 in tips - ~$400 for a weekend, including Friday night.

Finally, I’m a good tipper. ~20% usually - 30% if the service is really good. However, I would not be happy in AudryLand. If I decide to have 3 drinks, and tip handsomly for them, I think I would be rather annoyed to find that I was completely sloshed, needing to vomit, rather than just mildly tipsy. By Audry’s logic, I should start tipping bartenders poorly, to ensure that I don’t have to “Call Ralph on the Great White Telephone” at the end of the evening. :smiley:

I wasn’t really clear. I don’t like the whole concept of tipping. If restaurants raised prices 15% to be able to pay the workers decently, it would be fine with me. It would at least result in honest menu prices.
But what I don’t understand is why SwimmingRiddles keeps going on in “The Servers say…” about tipping as a percentage of the bill except in the special case of discounted meals. If SwimmingRiddles wants the tip based on the price, then it should always be based on price - not only when basing the tip on price is advantageous to the server.

[sub]just wanted to comment that I’ve sure started a fire with this subject. :D[/sub]

Much as I think the “tipping out” system outlined above is insane, can someone tell me if there’s some kind of IRS “domino effect” in place. If the IRS assumes that the server is being tipped 15% of all sales, do they then assume that a certain percentage of that 15% is being passed on to bartenders and other staff, and are those staff in turn taxed according to that assumption.

I have enough trouble coping with establishments which expect the staff to pool their tips (which is one reason I don’t like tipping by credit card), I don’t think I could deal with knowing that my server had to hand on a certain percentage of every single tip received to other staff.

Reprise

At the two restaurants I worked at in NC, you did not tip out a percentage of your tips, but a percentage of your sales. That’s why we claimed 10% of our total sales in taxes. So, if you averaged 15% for the night, tipped out 5% (to the busboys, bartenders, foodrunners etc) it works out to walking with about the 10% you claimed for taxes (based on your total sales).

It’s okay to tip via credit card, enough people pay in cash that the credit card tips are just deducted when you’re doing our cash out at night. The sales total, amount of sales in credit cards and credit card tips were all clearly printed out on the report that each server ran at the end of the night that the manager used to calculate how much we owed (at my restaurant, we acted as the “bank” and made change for each customer).

::sigh:: BECAUSE…

If I’m serving two tables the same amount of food, and am giving them the same level of service, PLEASE tell me why I deserve less money because my manager got a good deal on ad space? That’s riduculous. AND cheap. You’re still going to save money.

EXAMPLE: Meal comes to $100. You have 20% discount. Meal is now $80. If you had tipped 15% on the undiscounted price, you would have been dropping $115. Now, if you do the RIGHT thing, and tip 15% on the undiscounted price, you’re just adding the $15 to the $80. You’re still saving $20. You’re STILL saving 20%. But, if you tip 15% on $80, the total WITH tips, comes to only $92. In essance, while the coupon is only entitling you to 20% off, you are getting 23% off by ripping off the server. It’s simple math.

Please don’t make me repeat myself again.

As I understand it, (The only other job I’ve done in restaurants is hostessing and managing, so I’m less sure I know what I’m talking about here,) bartenders are paid the gratuity wage. So yes, bartenders who are tipped by the servers ARE getting taxed the same amount as the servers. Bussers generally get something near minimum wage, and usually they’ll get between 5% and 10% from each server. I don’t know how they’re taxed on those tips, though. Actually, now that I think about it, you ALWAYS tip out in cash. Always. So yea, everyone getting tipped out is getting it below the table, so to speak. :wink: Bussers? Care to correct this fact? Bartenders in restaurants, do you declare your server tips, or just the bar tips?

I would NEVER work in a restaurant that pools tips. A lot of chain restaurants do this, supposedly because it makes me give a shit if a customer in another server’s section wants his coffee topped off. What ends up happening is that one server sucks, one’s good and they end up getting paid the same. Bullshit. My sister, who has 16 years of waitressing experiance, recently expressed interest at trying to get a job at a certain restaurant in town.

Swiddles: Nah. They pool.
SisterRiddles: I don’t care. That just means I work less.

She has a GREAT work ethic (the reason she needs a job is because she’s recently become a high school teacher…talk about not getting paid for doing your job…), and I’d rate her cynical level at “moderate.” It’s just the voice of experiance with pooling there. Which is why I won’t work at a place that DOES pool. I’m a damn good waitress. If I’m working my tookus off for anyone, it’s the college loan office, dammit, not some other server’s pocket.

However, don’t punish the server for a stupid system. If your personal server sucked, and some OTHER server was really taking care of you, tell the manager. If enough people did that, the bad servers would get fired, and we’d all get better service. Yeah. PLUS, the good servers would get the 20% they deserve, instead of getting punished for a coworker’s incompitance. (I say 20% because of the assumption of a good server. Remember, 15% is not a good tip, it’s the minimum to NOT be a bad tip)

In a nice retaurant, one can make $150+ in tips, for a saturday’s night work?

and still the complaining?

damn, I sure did waste my time going to college.

No offense to you all, but very very few people have an easy job.
We could all write lists (comprising reams of paper) about the shit we all put up with at work.

It comes down to this: if you don’t like your job… quit.

When I go out I tip well…usually about 20 to 25%.
I also tip well to all service people because I know how hard the work can be.

but, if I get crappy service, I will leave next to nothing as a tip.
If I go again (IF), and if the service is bad or what have you,
well, I don’t have to worry about crappy service the next go round because there won’t be another go round.

There are way too many restaurants, hair salons, pizza places out there to feel compelled to accept this ‘blackmail’ of crappy service.

Actually, on the basis that tipping badly actually costs the wait person something - due to the tax policies so well explained in this thread - then bad tipping becomes an absolute essential when poor service has been received.

This will create a darwinian survival of the fittest process, where any person not up to the task will inevitably have to piss off and find a job they can actually do. This in turn will improve the overall standard of waiting in the US, to the benefit of everyone.

By the way, in response to Audrey’s point a) above about people from the UK not getting it, the only thing I don’t understand is the constant reference to stiffing people. This worries me.

Posted by alice _ in _ wonderland:

She’s right , I still work at a family place and stuff will get put into the food of customers, it’s not done to any regular person for no reason, just to the worst of assholes.

but, one difference is that they think it just a bit too gross to put actual body fluid into food,it’s usually like toilet water or water from the dipper well ( a skanky little sink we put the pie cutters and big knives in, it never gets cleaned out).

I even put dipper well water into the coke of the one horrible customer that I felt comepletely crossed the line.

But I dont think anyone would do it because of a customers tipping habits.

Out of interest, what’s the difference between this sort of behaviour and assaulting someone?

Please refer to the first Law of Servers. “Bad” is a subjective term. I, personally would categorize “bad service” as either two or more of the critereon that I mentioned before NOT happening, or blatently RUDE service. One cavet: don’t expect the level of service you get at a Five Star restaurant in a diner.

One phenomeon I’d like to point out that if I, or other people who serve for a living get BAD service, I tip 10% or less and find the manager. As long as you don’t overestimate the level of service you should be getting, based on the establishment you’re going to, BAD service should be punished.

Apparently not that simple.

Your suggested total bill comes to $95 after the discount of $20. The total bill without the coupon is $115. $20 is 17% of $115, not 20%. The customer is actually getting ripped off by not getting the 20% to which you just said he was entitled. When being condescending, you should probably double-check your calculations first.

Absolutely it’s subjective - to my personal opinion. I’m the one who pays the tip, I’m the one who defines good or bad.

That surely must seem fair?