I have not been able to find any history (yet) on “red of you,” so we’re left with speculation until someone with real information shows up.
Given the location, I could see a couple of possibilities:
It could have been a racist counterpart to “white of you,” based on prejudice directed against the Chrokee and Creek and other peoples of the region.
It could have been a simple phrase picked as a color contrast to “white of you” after “white of you” had been sanitized in that region. (If it was coined late enough, red might have been picked as the deliberate color contrast to white to avoid using black.)
Clearly, racist phrases have been sanitized (or lost their racial overtones) among some speakers when the phrase has been passed down outside the original racial context, but without a trail indicating when and where “red of you” was coined and how widely it was used, I am not going to pretend I know where or how it originated.
Appalachian Ohio and West Virginia, so no Cherokee or Creek. If it is related to race prejudice, then my guess would be that it wouldn’t be directly connected with real-life interactions between whites and Native Americans, but rather a sort of historically displaced, legendary anti-Indian prejudice.
“Remember the other day when you asked me what ‘irony’ was?”
Seriously, are you sure you knew what was going on? You pointed out that this woman was large and still you missed the point; which is baffling because otherwise,mentioning her size was meaningless. You squeeze past a fat woman while simultaneously complaining that the place should be wider, and then when she balks, you assume her offense was based on mishearing what you actually said as a clumsy, irrelavant, unlikely racial comment? Then you accuse her of assuming the worst of white people? :dubious:
So if I called an idea “gay” meaning - let’s say, “lame”, or I called a person “retarded” meaning - let’s say, “silly”…is excusable by saying it’s meant only in one sense and that no one should take offense since others have used it too and despite the fact that I’ve been made aware that it’s offensive to some, I’m determined to use my pet phrase?
It offends me - the use, no matter how “sarcastically” spoken always reminds me of the original intent.
[QUOTE=Maureen]
How so? She missed the most relevent sentence. The first one:
And immediately next to that sentence, he goes on to talk about the “large black woman right next to him”. Which leads me to wonder if her reason for taking umbrage had nothing to do with mishearing “wider” as “whiter”, and more to do with her thinking he was talking about people’s size.
Actually, all of you have come close to characterizing this phrase correctly, with the range between and a combination of Askia’s and tomndebb’s posts coming closest and being most representative of its possible present connotations. When I say that, I don’t mean that I’m an expert, but I have a reference to a highly reliable expert source* and I’d just like to add another piece to the discussion. Although tomndebb has outlined a more comprehensive array of racial, ethnic and geographic contexts, I’d like to add the following general interpretation (and this is only one variant interpretation):
The phrase is racist in its origins: “That’s white of you” used by whites to whites to mean you have certain qualities (listed in saoirse’s oft-repeated link) because you are “European” that I am complimenting and other races and nationalities, by implication, don’t have them. WE are better because WE are in that group (and therefore, the comment is racist). In the United States, the other race was most probably, but not exclusively, blacks.
The phrase evolved into something that became more racial than racist (although its racist origins were still linked to it): “That’s [mighty] white of you” expressed to a white person by anyone who is meaning to be sarcastic, to mean THAT INDIVIDUAL being commented on has behaved in some way the he thinks places him in that supposedly better group, but is wrong either because (a) the Europeans aren’t better than anyone else, and/or (b) THAT INDIVIDUAL hasn’t actually demonstrated the “Euro-characteristics” he thinks he has.
Actually, I think eleanorigby, perhaps without realizing it but using her finely-tuned sense of semantics, took the phrase to a more sophisticated level of ironic, sarcastic commentary about MartinHyde. By using the phrase “That’s mighty white of you” in the thread where it appeared (I can’t find the link right now), she was actually referencing one or more of those assumed “higher” European characteristics, turned THAT CHARACTERISTIC on its head, and commented on THAT INDIVIDUAL’s lack of that quality, in this case, having nothing to do with race.
Ultimately, in no way has eleanorigbycalled MartinHyde a racist or been racist herself, regardless of her knowledge, the origins of or the racism connected to the phrase.
Although it originally meant “I am (we are) [good trait] and, by implication, they’re not [good trait].” and evolved into “You (or that group) are not really that way either [good trait],” it never actually only meant “Those other people are not [good trait]”.
My expert reference was its use by George on “The Jefferson” to a white man, I can’t remember who he said to though.
I am offended by your post.
Don’t you remember the lesson ‘sticks & stone may break my bones but words will never hurt me’. You obviously didn’t learn it and I am offended by your ignorance. Not just from not learning this lesson, but also of the actual historical meaning of the ‘mighty white’ phrase. :smack:
You are exposed as a simple race baiter.
According to your type of logic maybe we should simply outlaw the use of all words deemed offensive. Get a life.
You know what is awfully white? Lecturing people on politically correct terminology over the internet. Must be in the top 10 by now, after stealing other people’s land and having terrible taste in music.