Captain Howe: That’s not a uniform, that’s a costume.
Anyway, me and some buddies went to the Peel Pub circa 1994 in “Garrison Dress” (a vaguely dressy army uniform that has since been retired). I was happily chomping down chicken wings, ignoring the wet T-shirt contest in progress. That’s a mistake, apparently, because when volunteers were requested, they seemed intrigued by the one army guy who was clearly disinterested. I dumped a pitcher of water on some bimbo, boogied a little to amuse the crowd and went back to my table to finish my wings. I suppose I could have parlayed that into getting some tail, but dammit, all I wanted was my ten-cent wings! Leave a man of war in peace, willya?
True story.
How do you see a double standard? The two things aren’t comparable. If I’d said that women who dress like sluts to attract men aren’t tacky, that would be a double standard. But I don’t judge anyone for flirting with a man in uniform at a bar, even if I think that the man in uniform at the bar is cheesy.
You know . . . I just don’t get this. In that thread you linked to in the OP, you say that you have a prejudice for people in the military. But then you get all huffy at a couple of soldiers who have the absolute gall to go to a bar wearing their uniforms and then who dare to . . . [gasp] . . . TALK TO GIRLS!! With boobs and everything!!
Now I don’t think they should break military regs by wearing the wrong uniform to bars, but why for the love of Ned do you think that someone showing other people that they’re in the military is somehow wrong?
I realize that you have a right to your own opinion, but c’mon, Misnomer, who’s being tacky here? Who’s being cheesy? Them or you?
I remember that whenever I got leave, the first thing I ever wanted to do was to shower and slip into a nice comfortable pair of jeans. The army may have owned me the rest of the time, but whenever I was out from under my thumb I could at least pretend that I was my own man. Don’t get me wrong: I was proud of my uniform; but to wear it when I didn’t have to… well, that would make me the army’s bitch.
Of course, around here a uniform won’t get you laid.
Oh, no. I’m always this dense. It helps make life more mysterious and interesting for me.
Well, let’s see. You see some guy in uniform not bothering you or causing a scene surrounded by well-wishers and talking with girls. He was having a good time, the girls were probably having a good time, and your friends were having a good time. The only person who was probably not having a good time seemed to be you.
You were annoyed because this guy got some free drinks and female attention. Using your burgeoning psychic powers, you managed to deduce that he meant for all this to happen and orchestrated the whole thing. I mean, the nerve, right?
Oh, yeah, and you called him a dick.
How do you know he was intending on getting attention? How do you know he wasn’t on his way to some Iraqi charnel house and maybe wanted a little pick-me-up before setting out on his way?
Uh-huh. And who the hell are you to dictate to that man how he should spend his leisure time? Who the hell gave you the right to call him a “dick” because he was having fun the way he wanted to?
Seems to me like you are totally prejudiced toward the military, provided of course, that they know their place and hide that fact rather than flaunting it “right at the bar” in front of everyone.
Now if he was bullying the girls for attention, and the guys for drinks and going off about he was better than slimey civilians, you’d have a point. But the girls and the guys seemed to enjoy being with him, and you’re coming off like a shrewish idiot.
But you know, I’m dense, so maybe it’s just me. :dubious:
Let me try to clear up a few possible misconceptions. Some of the below were mentioned in the OP, some were mentioned in subsequent posts, some haven’t been mentioned yet at all:[ul][li]There was one guy at the bar in uniform. One.[/li][li]The bar was miles from the airport, miles from any military installation, and miles from any DoD facility (and yes, I know where most of the ones around here are). We’re talking way out in the Virginia suburbs, here.[/li][li]I did not say anything to the guy in question, or to anyone else in the bar. The first time I expressed my opinion on the matter was in the OP of this thread.[/li]Lots of people in bars draw attention to themselves, and that’s to be expected. Whether it’s tacky or not depends on the person in question and how the attention is drawn. But I expect members of our military to at least pretend that they have better self-esteem (that is, they don’t need public recognition and pats on the back for serving our country) and better taste when they are in uniform. IMO, when you are in uniform you are not just some guy out to get laid, you are representing your service and our military. Be cheesy on your own time (and my bet would be that simply mentioning in the course of conversation that you’re in the military would still get you free drinks and women, just fewer of them). My opinion would be different if we were talking about servicemen overseas, or a bar right next to a base, but we’re not.[/ul]
It takes two to tango. Your concern was not that men were wearing uniforms, but that men were wearing uniforms to attract women. The women that you were with respnded by flirting, which completes the dance. Without the women responding by flirting, you would not have had an issue about the uniforms. Therefore you have a double standard.
That’s quite possibly the crappiest logic I’ve ever encountered. And I’m not quite sure how many times I have to say that it was ONE MAN.
The fact that he was at the bar in uniform was cheesy, it had nothing to do with the attention he did or did not subsequently receive. The women flirted with him because he was military, I can’t fault them for that. I fault the guy for the way those women found out that he was military. Sorry if the distinction is too fine for you.
Besides, by your logic that would also make any men who bought him a drink also tacky. Right?
The problem isn’t that we’re misunderstanding your point, Misnomer. The problem is that we’re understanding your point, and your point smells suspiciously like what some of us used to shovel on the farm.
But how is wearing your uniform in a bar any different from mentioning the fact that you’re military in a bar? And why the hell would it be different for servicemen overseas or near a base? Is that guy supposed to be some sort of spiritually enlightened sort who makes a point of disguising his identity when drinking for fear that people might actually think too highly of him? Why is he a “dick” for not conforming to your own little arbitrary code of conduct
Soldiers drink. Sometimes they even drink in bars. The army allows them to drink in bars while they’re off duty, even if they happen to be in uniform. The military doesn’t have a problem with this, Misnomer. Why should you?
I swear, you remind me of one of my professors who used to yell at the jocks for wearing their letterman’s jackets to class. No reason, really, he just didn’t think that athletics should have anything to do with academics. He was kind of a histrionic little wingnut, too.
There’s an etiquette rule here, believe it or not. According to standard etiquette in the US, a military uniform, worn properly, is never incorrect. It is perfectly suitable to wear your uniform under any social setting whatsoever. Therefore, if you define ‘tacky’ and ‘rude’ as ‘against standrad etiquette,’ then it isn’t tacky or rude to wear your military uniform to a bar.
Some caveats – you have to be wearing a uniform you are entitled to wear. The guy is Danalan’s story was wearing a uniform in order to impersonate a soldier. This is tacky and rude, obviously, and he deserved to be called on it.
And it has to be the correct uniform for the occasion. The man who wore his dress uniform to his sister’s wedding? Perfectly appropriate and proper. The dress unifrom is appropriate for all formal occasions. Far from being an insult to the groom, the soldier wearing his dress uniform was paying the couple a compliment by wearing his very best to their wedding.
So now we’re back to the situation in the OP. And I don’t know enough about Army regulations to say for sure whether or not the guy was wearing his uniform properly. Are BDUs the equivalent of the old Navy dungerees or new Navy utilities? If they are, then he was wrong to wear them to a bar, or anywhere off duty. In the Navy, your utilities are only for work. You can wear them on your commute to and from work, but you aren’t supposed to wear them anywhere else – not even into a fast food restaraunt, let alone a bar. However, if Army BDUs are authorized for public wear, then he was appropriately dressed and neither tacky nor rude.
Finally, we move into the question of whether or not he sullied his uniform by wearing it into a bar. Well, it’s certainly better not to get sloppily and disgustingly drunk in public while wearing your uniform. It looks bad and reflects badly on your service. However, it doesn’t sound as if this soldier was sloppily or disgustingly drunk, was he? He was just having a drink or two, right? Well, then I guess it depends on how degrading a place you think a bar is. Surely if a bar is too sordid a place for a soldier, then it’s too sordid a place for a decent guy like you?
Because wearing your uniform is an advertisement. It’s saying “hey, lookit me! I’m in the military!” How is it that you seriously don’t see a difference between that and mentioning your job in the course of conversation?
Because there would be a much higher chance that they legitimately hadn’t been able to change, or that they were on their way somewhere else. Why is the distinction impossible for you?
Really? Your own post earlier in this thread (#6) disagrees with you. Perhaps you should work that out with yourself.
It’s an opinion, sparky. And you seem to be contradicting yourself again: earlier you said that I’m entitled to my opinon (post #24), but instead of granting me that entitlement you are making huge assumptions and leaps of logic in order to prove me “wrong.”
Which is it? Am I allowed to think that wearing a uniform in a bar is tacky (not “wrong,” or against any rules, or morally bankrupt, just tacky), or not?
No, there really isn’t. There is my opinion that wearing your uniform in a bar to get drinks and meet women is tacky. My opinion has nothing to do with military rules or regs, or what’s been done for hundreds of years. No one has to agree with me (which is good, because apparently no one does), but asserting that having this opinion is wrong is just crazy – it’s an opinion.
No one claimed that the uniform was “sullied” by being worn into a bar. :rolleyes:
(Jesus, people, y’all are reacting way more strongly to my little old opinion than I did to the guy in the bar…)
And you might want to check your reading comprehension skills: I’m not a guy. You can tell from the part of the OP where I say “the other women I was there with.”