Doper drummers/rockers - why is this outrageous?

Cafe Society
61

Really, I don’t want to come across as having a stick up my ass about this. Luckily, there aren’t many music videos associated with the rock I love best (50s-60s-early 70s), so it’s not an issue with me.

I agree that we lack something today without the associated visuals of album cover art (and I emphasize album, as in LP…a different experience in itself from the microscopic print necessary in a CD cover or book!). But that’s quite different from a video that plays simultaneously as the music of an individual song is heard. That’s a much more direct and immediate (not to mention impossible to dislodge once you’ve seen it) association with song and visual that goes way beyond album cover art.

I think the other factor here, when it came to videos and MTV, was repetition. If you watched MTV and a song came on, there was that same video playing with it again. The Beatles did videos (and, it must be said, very cool ones) for “Penny Lane” and “Strawberry Fields Forever.” The difference, though, is that we saw them ONCE on network TV in 1967 – and then didn’t see them again for years and years. So even though I’ve seen the “SFF” video a few times subsequently, it still doesn’t come to mind when I hear the song.

Generally, I would agree with you that “interdisciplinary collaboration between artists” is a good thing and can lead to some very affecting art if done judiciously. I’m just a bit proprietary, I guess, when it comes to music. There’s a very long tradition of letting music stand on its own – most classical concerts, after all, don’t seem to need videos or live shows to spice them up, nor do jazz performances. And that’s my (admittedly minority) preference as well.

62

Whenever I see something like this, I always point to Sheila E.

I’ve seen her bounce her sticks off the floor, catch them, and never drop the beat, while wearing a bustier and 4" hooker heels. (See also: The Glamorous Life video.) When these guy drummers can do that, while singing and dancing to the song they wrote and produced… then they will have my esteem as “outrageous” drummers. Until then, AFAIC, Sheila E. is the shit and always will be.

63

That is a fact regardless of this thread. She can totally rock a standard drum set as well as she can rock the timbales, although I doubt she can wear the fuck-me pumps while toeing the kick drum pedal :wink:

64

I bet she can.

Wanna put some money on it?

:smiley:

65

Not even. Since, in addition to being part of the famed Escovedo family of percussionists, she was a protege of Prince, I wouldn’t want to guess what she could do in spike heels. :wink:

ETA - can’t see her feet here…until around 1.10 in - tennis shoes…rats.

66

I think this thread needs more demonstrations of the sincere and nonflamboyant skills of the world’s greatest drummers.
Ladies and gentlemen, someone who would never resort to cheap theater to sell a performance.
Buddy Rich! (clap clap clap clap)

More seriously, I should note that the band advertises as a ‘Show Band’. Now, the only other band I can think of that uses that name involves having the two lead singers dancing and flipping mid-show. On the other hand, that is Jake and Elwood.

67

The Showband has a long, storied tradition in music. It’s every bit as legitimate an art for as straight music, or musical dance, or magic set to music, or whatever. It’s a combination of music and performance, and bands that can do that well can be very entertaining.

If you want music played straight with no theatricality or performance to it, you must hate Stevie Ray Vaughan, who was known to play his guitar behind his back, upside down, with his tongue, or while swinging it around his body.

Would you have kicked Jimi Hendrix out of your band for lighting his guitar on fire? Do you hate Pete Townsend for windmilling his power chords when a nice, clean stroke would be more precise? Do you hate Keith Moon for being freaking insane behind a drum kit at times?

If you want to go to a concert where all the musicians sit on stools to support their guitars well and play note-perfect, technically precise songs identical to their album versions, go see the Eagles. But a lot of people who have been to their concerts say they’re pretty boring.

I just saw ZZ Top live last week. They don’t just stand their and play their instruments. They dance around, they break out the big fuzzy guitars, put on silly hats, do unison guitar moves, and banter with the audience, sometimes in the middle of a song. At one point, they let a little kid come up and strum Billy Gibbons’ guitar while he worked the frets on the neck.

I’m sure they could have played better without all that fluff. I’m also sure the show wouldn’t have been anywhere near as entertaining.

The drummer in that video is a great showman. That doesn’t mean he’s the world’s best drummer. Being a showman is a different skill. He’s good enough as a drummer that he can put on a show while playing the music well, and that’s a skill of its own. You wouldn’t want him doing that while you’re recording a love song in the studio, but you sure do want him doing that when you put on the gold Lame’ jackets and try to entertain a bunch of corporate people at the Christmas party.

68

Context is everything. Did SRV do the behind the back/tongue bit on every song he played, or do it throughout a song’s duration (as the drummer in question here did)? No, and neither did Hendrix – and obviously he and Townsend did their various kinds of violence to their axes at the climax of their shows. Wouldn’t be too practical otherwise!

With The Who, Moon’s shenanigans were integral to his drumming style (and to The Who’s overall attack), and he also had Townsend’s windmills and leaping about and Daltry’s lariat act with the mic going on simultaneously, so it’s not exactly like he stood out like a sore thumb when doing his thing.

I have never said that I’m against expressing emotion via physical movement in the course of playing rock ‘n’ roll. (Far from it…I’m rather known myself for jumping about quite a bit when I play electrically, though I’ve never done gimmicky stuff like playing guitar with my tongue.) I think WordMan said it well with his characterization of “sincere” rocking out vs. show biz stuff like this drummer.

You really make a judgment based on the context. It’s hard to get around the fact that drums generally play a support role in playing rock…a very important one, to be sure, but I can think of no rock band that is the equivalent of Buddy Rich’s ensembles, where the drummer is the main focus at all times.

And in this particular context (show band at a convention), I guess it can be argued that everything they do is shtick, so it’s OK. Not my cup of tea, but if it works for others, fine.

I would be one of them. I loathe The Eagles!

But I’ll bet you there was no equivalent of what the guy in this video did in Frank Beard’s performance. Right?

69

No, Frank Beard is like the straight man of the group. But the other two had plenty of fun.

Is your opposition to this limited only to drumming?

70

If I’m going to a concert, I want something more than what I can get at home. Unless you are playing non-electrical instruments in a concert hall, the acoustics are going to be worse, so you need some visual entertainment.

Same goes for if you are going to show something on TV. Heck, since you’re not going to get the better acoustics, you need something for even classical music.

71

One thing I like is when I’ve heard a song and I get this idea in my head as to what the song is about, and then I see the video and it makes a completely different, less obvious interpretation.

I see your Buddy Rich and raise you Gene Krupa :smiley:

(Also, that video answers the question, “What’s up with old men wearing their pants up under their armpits?”)

72

Yeah drummers should sit in the back and bash dem skins.

He was funny, made me giggle a little on the inside. Gold Lame says it all.

73

Keith Moon is the only rock musician I can think of who played lead drums, and it can be argued that he had to play that way in order to:

  1. Fill up the spaces left when Townsend soloed, as there was no second guitar or other rhythm instrument in The Who (see Mitch Mitchell and Ginger Baker).

  2. Not be completely subsumed by Townsend’s and Entwistle’s attack.
    If what you’ve gleaned from my posts is that I’m against musicians “having fun” onstage, you haven’t read very carefully. Once again, context is everything.

One of several incidents that led to the departure of Zal Yanovsky (a criminally underrated guitarist whom I adore) from The Lovin’ Spoonful was his looning about and pulling faces while John Sebastian was singing “Darling Be Home Soon” on the Ed Sullivan Show. I loved Zally, but if I were Sebastian, I would have been mightily pissed too.

That kind of stuff was great in the context of most of the Spoonful’s “good-time music” songs…but not this one. It was the wrong place and time for it.

Am I all bent out of shape about what a drummer in a “show” band did at a lame convention gig? No, not really…as I’ve said. Strictly speaking, though, what this guy did was not in the service of the song…it was in service to himself.

If you’re gonna broaden the discussion, I’m gonna weigh in with my view that it’s best if you pick your spots for that sort of thing.

74

I agree that it wasn’t in service to the song (of course), but in service to himself? :dubious: I have a pretty good feeling the band hired him exactly for what he was bringing to the show in his theatrics.

75

I’ve fired a very good drummer who could play Hendrix songs (on guitar!) because their playing was consistently just wrong for the band (and also wanted him back when his playing was right for a different band). So yeah, I might have fired the great SRV, given the chance. Oh lord! What ever will I do without a guy that can play long, intricate, difficult solos?!? Why play a shorter, easier solo myself, or get someone else who’s more to my taste. I must hate musicianship, too. Oh well, he’d just go off to some other better paying gig afterward, and we’d both be happy. (Yes, yes, he was no one trick pony. I actually love his playing on Let’s Dance, so we’d probably be able to work it out).

To explain how deeply wrong you are, here is an example: I used to light around 600 fireworks mid-song (musically appropriate, even - seriously!) as part of the act for one of my bands (yep, totally illegal, young and stupid, only one club ever objected, yes, they still had us back, no, no one ever was injured except I lost all my leg hair once, kept doing it after till the band broke up). I don’t like this drummers act, and wouldn’t want to be in a band where that was the act, Sam. Don’t go thinking that I want him wiped from the earth next.

Full disclosure: I loathe the cover bands they have at conventions, they’re a special combination of awful and loud, and will leave the hall when they start up. I don’t know what convention planners are supposed to do for entertainment. Get some mimes or a piano bar guy or clowns or something. Please stop hiring these bands. I’d rather stand in Guitar Center all day long. I was sent this clip many times by people who think that I would like it or be impressed (or they wanted to get a rise out of me, I dunno). They mention Texas Motor Speedway at the beginning of the clip (37 folks…how much do these bands get paid again!!!) I live in the DFW area, so I might have already walked out on this guy. (and he me)

76

I’m not quite following here. I think I somewhat agree with you, but I’m not sure what you’re trying to say. How does you firing off fireworks fit into all this? And a drummer playing Hendrix on guitar? And Stevie Ray Vaughn? And what?

77

He even does a proto-twirl at one point. Good choice!

78

I get the feeling **scabpicker **was visited by the ghost of David Bowie, who famously hired SRV to work on the Cat People single and the Let’s Dance album, but they parted ways when they couldn’t come to terms on fees for touring. Bowie also let Ronson go by Diamond Dogs because he felt he could get what he needed either playing the parts himself or using hired guns…

…no clue regarding the drummer (Adrian Belew?) or fireworks…

79

And those theatrics would be fine in the course of a song intended to spotlight them – e.g., their version of “Wipeout,” or maybe they could have essayed a version of “Cobwebs and Strange” or “Dogs, part 2” (it would have been fun to see what the punters at the convention made of one of those!).

I find them, though, to be at cross purposes in other contexts in which the drums aren’t meant to be the song’s primary focus.

80

Sorry, folks, it was a long day yesterday. That would have been much more clear had I quoted Sam Stone at the beginning of it. Either way, I mixed up him asking if I would have fired Jimi, and whether I thought much of Stevie Ray Vaughn’s stage act (If that wasn’t clear, I think his stage act was lame and had totally been done many times before and since. His playing is another thing entirely). What I meant by that ramble was: No, I don’t hate showmanship or musicianship, but if what you’re doing isn’t congruent with what the other folks in the band are trying to do, it’s probably not going to work out. The drummer that I fired was an excellent musician all-around, and on a good day could imitate Jimi as well as SRV could. All of his musicianship did not save him when his playing was consistently wrong.

The fireworks story was included to show to him that I don’t hate over the top showmanship, and have participated in such myself. I just hate lame showmanship. I just don’t think this guy is either being over the top, or a good musician.
The last part was what I think of the grand tradition of the Showband, if that’s what those convention and party organizers are hiring.

And to illustrate what I think is good showmanship: Peelander Z live!. I’d totally pay cover, then happily pay for overpriced drinks to be there - and I’m a total cheapskate.