Doper parents who work: what the hell do you do with your kids on off days from school?

[Dangerosa]

@Ceejaytee

Y summer day camp is fantastic. We’re Jewish humanists and we’ve never had any problems with the “C” in YMCA. My kids have a great time there. We also take advantage of their full-day programs when school is closed. They go on trips and swim with supervision. The day camp had swim lessons too. Love the Y.

Unitarian Deist married to Unitarian Atheist and our son (an atheist) goes to Y resident camp for a week in the summer. They use the work “God” in grace before they eat. And they have time set aside for reflection.

[WhyNot]

Back when I became a pagan, I had the common but unfortunate experience of being an insufferable anti-Christian bigot. It was actually during that summer that my son was at the Y’s daycamp. So I was acutely aware and offended by any Christian message or wording, prayers or whatnot in public. I was actively *looking *for it, hoping for a reason to be mad at them and feel persecuted. And there wasn’t a single thing. Nothing. Not a God, not a Jesus, not a prayer not a hymn. No Grace before meals, no reflection time, not even so much as the Pledge of Allegiance each morning.

[CrazyCatLady]

@TokyoPlayer

Have you considered telling your husband “Sorry Charlie, you are a partner and not the veto guy?” If one member of the relationship is doing all the work and comes up with an acceptable plan, then the other person needs to do the work if he/she doesn’t like the plan.

Yeah, that’s my take on that sort of thing. It’s amazing how much less objectionable plans get when the person turning up their nose is the one who has to put in the work to come up with the alternative.

[lindsaybluth]

@overlyverbose

They do. My husband just doesn’t want to take advantage of them. Because they have the name Christian in their name (Young Men’s Christian Association), my husband doesn’t want them to have our kids for a full day. He’s convinced that they’re going to brainwash our kids into little evangelicals. But for some reason, he’s a-okay with them doing YMCA aftercare. I guess his reasoning is that they can’t do much damage during a short two- or three-hour period, but they’ll implement their nefarious plan to take over our kids’ minds if they have them in their evil clutches all day. It really makes no sense to me, but it’s hard to change his mind once he’s made it up about something.

But we’re still kind of going back and forth on this. I’m willing to consider his point of view, but at the same time, I generally take care of all the childcare stuff.

Ah, the old “I won’t let them do X thing but I won’t come up with a better solution, that’s all on you”. I can’t speak to other YMCA’s but the 2-3 I’ve gone to in different cities over the years were extremely irreligious, much more so than even a public school. At a public school you say the pledge of allegiance (complete with god reference). I’ve never seen that or got that in any YMCA program. Sounds like he needs a reality check.

When I was in 2nd grade the teacher’s union went on strike. I didn’t learn much but I had a helluva time at a Lutheran daycamp. Hours started at 730 (but dropoff could be much later) and went until after work hours. Again, not at all religious in nature.

Whatever you do, get a place with structured physical play time and/or outdoor rec time. Even if it’s all indoors, some places have the kids run stairs or speed walk laps; sounds like your son would benefit from that (as we did as well).

ETA: If you have a local JCC, they have excellent care programs - but they’re often more expensive than a YMCA. You’d also have to worry about Passover, Yom Kippur, etc being closed. YMMV of course.

[Mississippienne]

Wait, how old do kids have to be to be left at home alone? My mother would leave me by myself starting at age 7. It helped that I wasn’t a hellraiser, but I did fine on my own.

[Ruken]

Once one of us was old enough to use the stove and feed ourselves (~7 or so), we were just left to our own devices with phone #s for emergencies. Before that we were left at sitters or probably illegal daycares.

[Flutterby]

@Mississippienne

Wait, how old do kids have to be to be left at home alone? My mother would leave me by myself starting at age 7. It helped that I wasn’t a hellraiser, but I did fine on my own.

Rule of thumb tends to be age 12, depending on maturity.

[MandaJo]

@Mississippienne

Wait, how old do kids have to be to be left at home alone? My mother would leave me by myself starting at age 7. It helped that I wasn’t a hellraiser, but I did fine on my own.

It varies from state to state, but legally the limit is usually around 12. Note, too, that there is a range here: a kid is probably ready to stay home for an hour or two while parent runs errands long before they are ready to stay home for a 10 hour workday. And five ten hour workdays a week all summer long is a whole new level of potential trouble/bad habits.

The number of kids makes a difference, too, in a counter-intuitive kind of way: you might leave an 8 year old home alone, or a ten year old, but leaving them BOTH home substantially increases the chances that you will come home to trouble, IME.

[Palo_Verde]

@MandaJo

It varies from state to state, but legally the limit is usually around 12. Note, too, that there is a range here: a kid is probably ready to stay home for an hour or two while parent runs errands long before they are ready to stay home for a 10 hour workday. And five ten hour workdays a week all summer long is a whole new level of potential trouble/bad habits.

The number of kids makes a difference, too, in a counter-intuitive kind of way: you might leave an 8 year old home alone, or a ten year old, but leaving them BOTH home substantially increases the chances that you will come home to trouble, IME.

That’s not true. Most states don’t have any legal limit, just vague wording about reasonable times for reasonable ages.

Here’s a list:
Alabama
None

Alaska
None

Arizona
None

Arkansas
None

California
None

Colorado
None

Connecticut
None

Delaware
None

Florida
None

Georgia
None

Hawaii
None

Idaho
None

Illinois
14

Indiana
None

Iowa
None

Kansas
None

Kentucky
None

Louisiana
None

Maine
None

Maryland
8

Massachusetts
None

Michigan
None

Minnesota
None

Mississippi
None

Missouri
None

Montana
None

Nebraska
None

Nevada
None

New Hampshire
None

New Jersey
None

New Mexico
None

New York
None

North Carolina
8

North Dakota
None

Ohio
None

Oklahoma
None

Oregon
10

Pennsylvania
None

Rhode Island
None

South Carolina
None

South Dakota
None

Tennessee
None

Texas
None

Utah
None

Vermont
None

Virginia
None

Washington
None

West Virginia
None

Wisconsin
None

Wyoming
None

Note: Some states have guidelines, but very few have laws.

[Nava]

@Hello_Again

I used to go to YMCA sleepaway camp. I’m Jewish, and the only way I could describe the program is “extremely nonsectarian.”

The first time I went to the US it was for a job in an all-girls summer camp (YMCA Camp Huckins). There were buses available to local services at several churches and a sinagogue. If you wanted to go, you had the times of the buses available, just be there on time and take it. That was it.

One of the best summers of my life, too.

[ShelliBean]

Palo Verde - here I am paying for child care like a sucker!

To the OP - I would gently suggest that your husband is shortchanging your child what can be a wonderful summer opportunity to be active and make friends in the name of making a point. We are atheists and the C in YMCA has never bothered me. I think on one of the glossy magazines that comes twice a year it says something about doing things through god’s grace. That’s about as preachy as it gets - and I’m in MS, the YMCA is in AL (I’m a half and half living arrangement, too complicated to go into here)!

Seriously, I mean this with gentle humor but I am serious: suck it up, dad. You are not winning any points sitting at home refusing to pay toward a Christian company.

They accept my atheist money just fine.

[overlyverbose]

@TokyoPlayer

Have you considered telling your husband “Sorry Charlie, you are a partner and not the veto guy?” If one member of the relationship is doing all the work and comes up with an acceptable plan, then the other person needs to do the work if he/she doesn’t like the plan. I think wives tend to get childcare responsibilities dumped on them but it should be a joint project.

This is definitely the point I’m coming to. I’m happy to look for ways to enrich our children’s lives during the summer, but unfortunately, I have a full-time job, too, which contributes significantly toward the financial wellbeing of our household and our kids’ education.

Thanks for all the responses so far! Keep 'em coming.

For what it’s worth, I have no concerns about the Y. I’ve had excellent experiences with them so far and don’t expect that to change.

[Palo_Verde]

On that list of ages you can leave a child alone, doesn’t Ill. stand out as kinda crazy? I mean, not left alone until they are 14??? Really???

I leave my 7 and 9 year olds alone for up to an hour at a time, and my 12 year old babysits for other regularly.

[Dangerosa]

@Palo_Verde

On that list of ages you can leave a child alone, doesn’t Ill. stand out as kinda crazy? I mean, not left alone until they are 14??? Really???

I leave my 7 and 9 year olds alone for up to an hour at a time, and my 12 year old babysits for other regularly.

The way the Illinois law reads, it isn’t that you can’t leave a child alone until they are 14. Its written to leave the state the ability to prosecute if you leave a developmentally delayed 13 year old alone.

[lindsaybluth]

I was a sophomore in high school at 14. Illinois reminds me of Northwest Airline’s old policy of not letting anyone under 18 fly without being escorted.

I was escorted on and off my flight and checked up on as a freshman in college going home 2500 miles for winter break :smack:.

I also wonder what young freshmen in college or those who skipped a grade or two are going to do when they carry wads of cash with them everywhere. With the new regulations people can’t get debit cards until they’re 18 and for many that can be late in freshman and even sophomore year. Huzzah for nanny regulations!

[WhyNot]

@Palo_Verde

On that list of ages you can leave a child alone, doesn’t Ill. stand out as kinda crazy? I mean, not left alone until they are 14??? Really???

No, not really. That’s a vast oversimplification of what the statutes actually say. I really like Illinois’ law, which includes lots of language about “reasonable” and lists at least 15 factors which may come into play, like whether they have special needs, were they left with an emergency contact number, how long a period of time was it, etc. It leaves lots of discretionary room to punish asshole parents, but also lots of room for decent parents who have a responsible kid and can’t afford childcare for a couple of hours after school before they get home from work.

I think it makes a whole lot more sense to take a holistic look, rather than set an arbitrary age, and I’m glad my state agrees.

From “Preparing Children To Stay Alone,” published by the Illinois’ Department of Human Services:

Unfortunately, there is no magic age at which children develop the maturity and good sense needed to stay alone. However, there are some signs that show your child may be ready. First, your child should indicate a desire and willingness to stay alone. Children who are easily frightened or express an unwillingness to stay alone are probably not ready for this responsibility. In addition, your child should be showing signs of accepting the responsibility and being aware of the needs of others and should be able to consider alternatives and make decisions independently. Children who are able to get ready for school on time, solve problems on their own, complete homework and household chores with a minimum of supervision, remember to tell you where they are going and when they will be back are demonstrating some of the skills they need to care for themselves. For many children these abilities begin to appear between the ages of 10-12. Finally, your child should be able to talk easily with you about interests and concerns. Good parent-child communication is needed to ensure that any fears or problems that arise because of staying alone can be quickly discussed and dealt with.

Our 6 year old recently had her first Home Alone experience when she didn’t want to walk to the corner store. All of 10 minutes with the door locked and the building never out of our sight, but wow did she feel so grown-up!

[WhyNot]

Ah, found the magic 15. This also comes from the brochure quoted above, so may not be verbatim from the statute:

What is appropriate under certain circumstances may be considered child neglect in other circumstances.

While recognizing that many factors may apply, Illinois law lists 15 specific factors to be considered when deciding whether a child has been left alone for an unreasonable period of time. They include:

1. the age of the minor
2. the number of minors left at the location
3. special needs of the minor, including whether the minor is physically or mentally handicapped, or otherwise in need of ongoing prescribed medical treatment such as periodic dosages of insulin or other medications
4. the duration of time in which the minor was left without supervision
5. the condition and location of the place where the child was left without supervision
6. the time of day or night when the minor was left without supervision
7. the weather conditions, including whether the minor was left in a location with adequate protection from the natural elements such as adequate heat or light
8. the location of the parent or guardian at the time the minor was left without supervision, the physical distance the minor was from the parent or guardian at the time the minor was without supervision
9. whether the minor’s movement was restricted, or the minor was otherwise locked within a room or other structure
10. whether the minor was given a phone number of a person or location to call in the event of an emergency and whether the minor was capable of making an emergency call
11. whether there was food and other provision left for the minor
12. whether any of the conduct is attributable to economic hardship or illness and the parent, guardian or other person having physical custody or control of the child made a good faith effort to provide for the health and safety of the minor
13. the age and physical and mental capabilities of the person(s) who provided supervision for the minor
14. whether the minor was left under the supervision of another person
15. any other factor that would endanger the health and safety of that particular minor

[Dangerosa]

And it reads a lot like what you’ll find for “guidelines” that other states have, other states just haven’t brought it into statutory form.

In fact, I’m really not sure why Illinois bothers with an age. Is a developmentally challenged 13 year old left alone for 24 hours that much worse than the same developmentally challenged kid two years later? Seems like “minor” would be adequate.

[ENugent]

Well crap, we just got a call that the community center science camp that she was signed up for next week has been cancelled. I hope we can find something else.