Doper Weigh-In: Batman Beyond

Cafe Society
1

I was curious if any Dopers had watched and/or formed an opinion of the three-season series of Batman Beyond.

If you hadn’t heard about it, it was a somewhat experimental show that, in theory, took a look at the future world created from Batman: The Animated Series, New Batman/Superman Adventures, and possibly Justice League/Unlimited. In theory. The show was rather interesting and extremely well-done. It hit some good themes and had quality action. In a lot of ways, it was like take 2 of Batman, the Animated series, showing off what the crew could do with more experience, but a fresh take in a new situation.

Certainly it was a quality show, although not even close to being as good as Justice League (but that’s a crazy-high bar). I definitely enjoyed it, and have popped by recently to still if the episodes still hold up (they do).

And yet, I can’t enjoy the series. Episodes yes, series no. It was a little ahrd for me to pin down exactly, but I think it came down to this: the show purports to be the result of everything done in the main Batman/JLA shows. But if so, then batman should frankly hang up his cape and quit now.

This is the ultimate outcome for Batman: he loses interest in everything. he completely loses his connections to the larger world or his former friends among superheroes. The people he cares about stop talking to him. In the end, Gotham is arguably worse than when he started. The central, historic core is effectively abandoned, being a rotting husk. Gangs charge all over the place causing mischief. If anything, the city has become even more corrupt and vile, although it’s at least wealthier. He evidently never went anywhere with the half-dozen women who admired him and explicitly or implicitly pursued him. Batman is alone, and the best outcome for him is to eventually die as a crotchety old man with a kinda-sorta-quasi-son figure. Of course, he ruined the life of his previous adopted son, so…

Yeah.

It’s not that I am against showing an aging Batman who faces different challenges, but I kinda expect The Goddamn Batman to pull at least a marginal victory in his one-man war of life’s inequities. This is fundamentally the same problem that I ran into in The Dark Knight Rises: a self-pitying, self-loathing Batman isn’t any fun. Yes, he’s the character who can brood grimly after facing down the Joker. But he’s also supposed to have friends and an actual sense of humor (to be used in limited, controlled doses).

Now, it might be unfair to talk about Batman as if he were the main character, because technically the main character is Terry, a high-school student with shocking amounts of combat skills (with no real explanation). Terry puts on the suit, gets called Batman, but realistically isn’t. And this is the main problem. Terry isn’t a bad character, although I found him bland. He’s fairly bright, energetic, and feisty. The problem is that he’s effectively handed the suit and suddenly he’s Batman, when he just didn’t earn it. Nightwing didn’t become Batman, even after years of experience, until Batman was temporarily dead (long and truly absurd story). In order to develop as independent characters, he very specifically chose his own costumed identity. The other Robins didn’t, but then Robin was realistically an identity chosen during training only. Hence just pointing at a totally new character and saying, “Batman!” has some issues, because those are huge boots to fill.

Terry does not really fill them. I even like the character, but in terms of emotional depth, combat ability, and deduction he’s probably the least interesting Batman character yet, even counting the various sidekicks in media. The goofy but lovable kid Robin(s) in Young Justice were vastly more awesome than the wannabe Batman.

And unfortunately, that’s about as far as it goes in terms of interesting characters. The villains show up, but none of them are particularly exciting. The show’s main bad guy, Powers, is little more than a slimy tycoon. But given how he gets outmaneuvered by Bruce Wayne several times, it seem likely that he’d have gone nowhere if the Bat had really cared to do something about it. Most of the villains are just kinda there: they appear, have no real motivation besides being paid, and then leave. Hell, I think the Jokerz gang actually has more appearances and interesting characterization than any of the supposedly major villains, aside from Powers due to his appearing in nearly every episode.

The various secondary cast is also pretty lackluster. Terry’s mom shows up a few times but isn’t really a character. His girlfriend appears regularly, but I can’t think of a single memorable thing she does, and she and Terry have all the chemistry of a particularly hard slab of granite. Barbara Gordon is probably the most significant, but she’s just as old and crotchety as Bruce Wayne.

Then there’s Return of the Joker and the final episode of Justice League Season 2. Both are extremely well done, and I hate both of them. They’re almost painful to watch. The former features horrifying things done to children, and is ultimately an unpleasant experience all around. In the end, the important to me is that the Joker ultimately wins. That may not have been the intended message, but it’s basically what happens: he warps the heroes so badly that they can never truly erase even the memory of him; he actually does more harm than Batman’s entire remaining Rogue’s Gallery put together.

But the episode of Justice League is really obnoxious in a smaller but equally significant way. In it, Terry* learns that he’s Bruce’s son. Except he isn’t. Yes, Cadmus apparently stole Bruce Wayne’s genes, shoved them into some random dude, and waited for him to have children. Now, I have no problem with a certain amount of contrivance in fiction, but this is unnecessary, pointless, useless, distracting, unnecessary, unnecessary, idiotic, superfluous, needless, gratuitous, and unnecessary. It adds nothing. If you liked the Bruce/Terry chemistry (i.e., an old man and a teenager being annoying to each other), it doesn’t improve things. Bruce will never see . It also means Cadmus missed the entire point of Batman:

Not everyone can be Batman, but anyone could be.

He was never defined by his genes, but by his heart, his head, and his will to keep fighting. Which the show basically kneecaps in its opening episode, but whatever. It also means there’s an truly absurd number of coincidences at work, which just annoys me.

*I also thought it was a terrible idea to have Justice league being mono-focused around Batman, and specifically characters from another show entirely.

I suppose in the end, it’s not an implausible prediction for the Batman shown in the Animated series. And as I said, it’s a good series on its own. But I think it contains a rotten kernel, and it kills any enjoyment of the series as a whole. I can watch it, but never loved it.

2

I loved Batman Beyond.

I’d say Terry is in the process of earning the title. He makes mistakes. He learns.

IIRC

“You’re pretty strong for some clown who thinks he’s Batman.”

“I AM Batman.”

I especially loved the episode with Mister Freeze.

Re Dana

I would also have liked some explanation as to why exactly Terry chose her over Ten or Max.

BTW Batman Beyond had a few comic series. I have a few issues, and I judge them good. An episode of Static also featured the titular hero being transported to the future and teaming up with Terry.

Re Return Of The Joker

He’s done truly horrific things and left his mark on the future. I don’t see that as a failing on Batman’s part, nor does it sour the film for me. Questions like ‘If I am such a hot shot superhero, how come I could not save Robin before they tortured him?’ are central to Batman.

RE Justice League

I haven’t seen it.

3

It’s kind of the stepchild of the DCAU. I liked it but never loved it like I did the other series. It was a little schizophrenic and uneven and never really seemed to know what audience it was aiming at but it told some good stories.

For me the JLU episode that features Batman Beyond, “Epilogue” actually made me like BB even more. It tied the show back to the other series in a way I enjoyed and how the very end book ended the entire DCAU made me smile back when I first saw it (in case someone isn’t aware, the final scene of “Epilogue” mirrors the first scene of the first episode of Batman: TAS).

4

Batman the Animated Series had nearly fifty years of Batman villains and stories to be inspired by. On the other hand the animated series did give us both Harley Quinn and Baby Doll who I thought were memorable villains. Obviously Quinn made an impact since she was brought into the comics.

I like Batman Beyond but TAS was the stronger of the two shows. The writers and animators struck gold with the series and I consider the series to be the best incarnation of Batman in the last thirty years. Yeah, I like it better than that actual Batman comics and even the Chris Nolan films.

5

I just started the series because SFDebris is reviewing it. My first impressions are that I like the first episode (both parts) and how it was done–not too futury–but think the intro is definitely trying too hard. That makes me a bit wary about the series.

(I saw it as a kid, but I came in late and it didn’t grab me enough to figure it all out. And I remember nothing of it other than the basic premise…)

6

I loved it. I own it. I also have a Batman Beyond hoodie.
So sue me.

7

Didn’t watch it was new, thought it looked dumb, especially compared to Batman TAS. Spent over a decade hearing people fellate it in reviews and such, so when the Hub started airing it watched the first few episodes. I still feel my early assessment was the correct one.

8

I remember liking it okay back when I first saw it. The internet says 1999-2001, but I recall seeing it later (probably migrated from a station I didn’t watch to a station I did watch after it was over). I remember liking it okay, though it wasn’t the most memorable show. As far as DC cartoons went I preferred Static Shock and Teen Titans (and of course Batman TAS from before Beyond was on). I do remember Return of the Joker being good, especially the climax and the way Terry wins.

9

I liked it quite a bit, although I agree that Batman TAS was better. But then, Batman TAS was very good.

10

IMO One of (if not the) best written animated series of all time.

Love love love it

11

One of the best exchange in the show, I thought, was when Terry (as Batman) is going after Powers and the conversation goes something like this:

Powers: Why are you going after me?
Batman: You killed my father.
Powers: You’ll have to be more specific than that.

I liked it and I liked some of the liberties they took with the franchise and some of the stuff they were able to do by placing it in the near future. Plus it is far, far superior to Marvel’s attempt with Spider-Man Unlimited.

Return of the Joker was creepy and I didn’t like it as much because of some of the things involved.

This is a very good point. I know they were trying to put a coda on Batman Beyond that they weren’t able to do during the series, but this was entirely unnecessary. When they make Terry Bruce’s pseudo-son, it takes away a part of Terry who becomes Batman because he wants to do the right thing. He can be part of the legacy without the DNA.

12

I love Batman Beyond and I refuse to accept “Epilogue” as canon. The idea is just too stupid, even for the occasionally goofy DCAU.

But Terry does grow into Batman. After taking the suit and car for a joyride in the first episode, Bruce allows him to take up Batman’s mantle, but only if he’ll agree to train and earn it. I think he eventually does.

I believe Powers replies back the even more badass, “Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down?”

13

Found it on YouTube:

14

Liked it. Didn’t think they did enough with it.

15

I found most of it enjoyable enough, but it suffers in comparison to the other DCAU series. Granted, that’s at least in part because the DCAU shows in general tend toward excellence. I put it a little below Static Shock on the list; although Static isn’t better in terms of production, and the writing tended to be heavy-handed, it was generally a lot more fun.

I like the Beyond crossovers in “Future Shock” (Static) and “The Once and Future Thing” (JLU). In fact, “The Once and Future Thing” is one of my favorite JLU episodes. “Epilogue”, I’m torn about. On the one hand, more Amanda Waller. On the other hand, the genetic connection was completely unnecessary, and I’m inclined to think it cheapens the whole thing. It would have worked better, I think, if it had been written as Waller just identifying Terry as a potential Batman, and scheming to draw him into the role. Sorry, Amanda, the cons outweigh the pros. (No offense.)

16

I love Batman Beyond, as I love most of the DCAU. It certainly isn’t as good as Batman:TAS or JL/U, but I probably enjoy it more than Superman:TAS or Static Shock. It definitely has it’s flaws, but it also has it’s strong points.

I think one of the important points that Batman Beyond focuses on is exactly how miserable Batman is, but we also learn that it’s not because of his life in crime, he actively chose to be alone and miserable. Terry starts on that path but as we learn, and is highlighted in “Epilogue”, he realizes that it doesn’t mean that he has to live a joyless life. Bruce always chose his duty over his own joy in life, and Terry made that mistake at times, but he ultimately found a way to balance his life and find his happiness.

For some comments on specific episodes, particularly “Epilogue”, that would be one of my all-time favorite episodes if not for my conflict about the whole contrived DNA thing. The story about Batman and Ace was moving and part of the depth of personality that the DCAU built up in that Batman that just can’t be done in the movies. I love that it showed him struggling with his duty but ultimately choosing to propose to Dana. And, of course, Amanda Waller’s character is awesome, and it’s a perfect way to bring her character’s arc to a close. I just felt like the DNA part wasn’t necessary and undermines much of the journey Terry went on. What are the odds that he, and presumably his brother, are both Bruce’s sons AND he happens to have that run in with Bruce and become Batman all without knowing. Either she should have gone on about how she wanted to recreate Batman but didn’t have a hand in him at all, or maybe she rewrote the DNA and guided him to Bruce, but not the inbetween way.

As far as episodes specifically in the series, I loved the ones that revisited villains from Batman’s past. The Mr. Freeze episode was great, as I love the TAS interpretation, and I love the Ra’s al Ghul one even more, perhaps my favorite of all of Batman’s villains. I liked Return of the Joker, but man was that dark and tragic, but it does help give a lot of the context of just why Bruce is even so much more messed up.

And as for the villains, yeah, none of them are particularly great. The closest he has to an arch nemesis is Powers/Blight, but they kill him off in the finale of the first season, and so not having his own joker kind of hurt. They did have a few other recurring villains, Inque, Shriek, and Spellbinder, none of them are really iconic.

For supporting characters, I think they did a pretty good job. I love Barbara Gordon, I think her knowing their identities makes for an interesting twist on the dynamic with Jim Gordon. Dana was pretty bland, but I think she was supposed to seem uninteresting relative to his exciting alternate life. Max was kind of meh for me, I understand why they added her character in the second season, he needed someone else to talk to besides Bruce, but she just seemed a little over the top. And I imagine most people didn’t like her, but I thought Ten was also in interesting sort of twist on the same sort of lure that Catwoman was to Bruce.

So, as far as a superhero shows go, considering it was a new concept without the depth that ones like Batman, Superman, Spiderman, X-Men, etc. have, I thought it was fairly well done and was a bit more serious and definitely better produced that Static Shock, though that show was also surprisingly good for what it was, at least after it got to the second season. Either way, it’s third for me in the overall amazing DCAU behind Batman:TAS and JL/U, perhaps tied with or slightly above Superman.