I’d quibble with a few things here.
U.S. debt is largely owned by the U.S., not China.
But yes, we do trade with China, and increasingly that’s hard if not impossible to get away from. But I don’t see how that gives them a pass for being an increasingly brutal dictatorship that is sowing fear in the Pacific, or puts the west in a place where they can’t condemn that.
Agreed.
China buys lots of American brands; it’s the biggest market for brands from Budweiser to Buick.
Does that mean China agrees with the US invasion of Iraq, or else they are hypocrites? Of course not.
It’s pretty hard to boycott all of a superpower’s produced goods (Ok, USSR wasn’t that hard). The US will end up buying chinese goods indirectly if nothing else.
On the subject of the iphone, once again it seems I need to say this: iphones are assembled in China. It’s misleading to say they are made in China.
When you buy an iphone, many countries’ companies get a cut, and China is at the back of the queue (self-nitpick: unless it’s a model with a chinese battery, in which case we can say China is in the middle of the queue or something. Front of the queue is of course Apple itself).
Of course China does manufacture a lot of high-tech consumer electronics and components themselves, but iphones are always the example people go to, and it’s really the worst example.
Given where rare earths mostly come from, damn near *every *cellphone battery is ultimately a Chinese battery
Never mind, I got magnets and batteries mixed up in my brain.
Thanks. I readily admit my ignorance re: such things as Chinese investments in US debt and other assets.
But as a nation, we HAVE been giving China a pass, through our selfish and short-sighted policies. Instead of increasing aid, and willingly participating in multinational agreements on climate, trade, law of the seas, etc. - we pursue our own short-sighted interests. China would not have been able to make the gains they’ve made in Africa, SE Asia, the arctic… if the US hadn’t created a vacuum into which they could expand these past couple of decades.
Our nation has long been pretty inconsistent in its support for human rights. We eagerly condemn them, if we do not incur any economic or strategic cost by doing so. We COULD take significant steps both regarding imports and exports w/ China. But our nation - and I think most citizens - simply don’t care enough to bear any significant cost/inconvenience.
As a general matter, I’m more interested in how my country acts, than in thinking my country should dictate how another country acts within its borders. And however China acts w/in its borders, the US COULD have taken FAR greater steps to limit their influence BEYOND those borders. Now, we are increasingly less able to do so.
Also of course if we’re also including the origin of the materials that went into the phone then the list of countries becomes much longer. Maybe China’s not at the back of the queue any more because countries like DR Congo get completely screwed over.
I don’t feel this is really the case. I think China has been able to spread its influence in other countries by reaching out to regimes that other countries (like the United States) avoid.
Why do you think China has better relations with North Korea than any other country has? Because China is willing to work with Kim Jung-un without suggesting he should lighten up on his citizens. There’s the same “no judgement” policy with Burma and Zimbabwe.
Often by China (the biggest importer of minerals from sub-Saharan Africa)
I’m sure there is some of that. Of course, no one would accuse the Saudis of being enlightened freedom lovers…
And just the other day I heard about China having invested heavily in Greenland’s minerals. More effective than trying to buy the country…
My view of China has changed for the worse over the last decade. There was a time where I thought that doing business and trading with them would moderate them on abuse of human rights and so forth. I no longer think that is true. We can do business with them and trade with them, and cooperate where it serves our national interests and helps the world overall. But we will not moderate their totalitarian abuse of people in HK and with some of their minorities, and their population in general. They are a Communist nation with no respect for human rights, and we should understand that. We will also not likely stop them from expanding into the sea, building new “islands”, and exerting more control around international waters that are near China. I also worry that there will be a military invasion of Taiwan in our lifetime, as they see Taiwan as a renegade province, and not a free state.
So, what do we do about it? Well, Trump’s trade war is not the right way.
Here’s where I’ve changed on TPP. Back in the day, I did not support TPP. But I now view TPP as a geopolitical alliance of countries that could be a counter-weight to China in that region of the world. When we abandoned TPP, we only hurt ourselves and empower China. We also must not abandon our military obligations in Japan and Korea. And we should not abandon our role in multi-lateral trade organizations. Trump is pulling us inward, directly confronting China on trade, instead of helping us build up alliances with other nations to counter China. Finally, NATO should not be abandoned either. China and Russia both benefit when we turn our backs on NATO.
Cow’s Tongue?
My thoughts on China… they have dedicated themselves to becoming an economic and technological powerhouse, and they are moving mountains to accomplish it. However, they are turning back to authoritarianism. Cracking down on political criticism within and without, using force to coerce their own people and financial leverage to affect western countries, like with the NBA thing.
They use industrial espionage and intellectual property theft, they have little regard for international agreements on proper relations in these matters.
The way I see them, they are the very demonstration of the Trump Republican agenda - no EPA, no FDA, no OSHA. Rampant pollution, lead paint in toys, contaminated pet food, child workers, sweat shops. Criticize the government, go to prison.
As far as China vs. Russia, I’m not writing of Russia yet. Putin is pushing to make Russia great again, back to the glory days of the soviets. And Trump’s policies play right into his hands, strengthening his role on the world stage, increasing his influence in Syria and Turkey, and weakening NATO. Neither country gaining power is a good thing for America or democracy or human rights.
Cow’s Tongue. Strange names they give things.
Now they’re requiring their citizens to have their face scanned and tied to their phones.
They’ve shot passed any big brother techno-nightmare scenario imagined.
Not just pet food, but also milk. Lottsa lottsa sick babies.
My feelings? Admiration for their technical achievements, which are impressive. Less admiration for them fucking up Tibet, and buildling hydro dams in the Himalayan valleys. Less still for their widespread use of video surveillance and facial recognition technology, and serious unhappiness at the warehousing of - how many exactly? - a million Uighurs. The dispute in the South China Sea was inevitable, because it goes way back to the Kuomintang, and I think it will end up as a possible reason for a war starting with China (the PRC, that is). They now have serious military muscle and could well be tempted to use it if Donnie decides to play the tough guy.
The protests in HK? Also inevitable, in a way, and not surprising given the attitudes and methods of the PRC, but I get the feeling that the PRC is avoiding excessive confrontation and the protesters are sometimes just making noise. Just what do they want, and what do they expect to get? And maybe like the students in 1989 they will underestimate the military.
Beyond that, not much change. I am just waiting to see if they officially bring back the emperor in the form of the present incumbent.
Yes, notoriously so. It’s not just a case of doing anything for the money, but they do like have some regimes who are syncophantically grateful to them and, from their point of view, have the balls to keep the populace in line and none of this namby-pamby democracy. Soul mates, with the gloves off. But this is nothing new, this was PRC policy all the time.
What I wonder is if they are going to go from neo-colonialism to actual colonialism. I saw somewhere a suggestion that the Chinese support Africa so much because they want to park a good chunk of their population there. At first I thought this was seriously weird, but on consideration it makes sense.
My wife and I went out to a nightclub here in Edmonton for the first time in a few years. To my surprise, everyone had to stand in front of a backdrop and be photographed, and they had to hand over their driver’s licenses and have the front and back scanned. No entry without it. They said it was a new liquor board regulation.
And if they have location data for your phone, it’s trivially easy to tie your license and photo to your phone.
If true, that that this is a new regulation, that will be the last time I go to a bar that does that. The possibilities for identity theft or other shenanigans are off the chart if someone has a fresh photo of you and a copy of your driver’s license. And I’m willing to say that the local bar’s data security policies are probably not NSA grade. Crazy.
Everyone in line seemed to think it was no big deal. Of course, they were a lot younger than me.
I tried googling Edmonton and liquor laws. didn’t see anything. Doesn’t sound like something Canada would do.
I don’t think it would be very popular to try that in the States.
If anything, China’s prosperity has shown that increased wealth and affluence can make people *more *OK with dictatorship, not less. It’s when people are starving that they have less to lose by revolt.
I watched a large part of the video linked in OP. The part I watched had little to do with the issues being discussed; and, frankly, I found it boring. I found this video on the rapidity of China’s growth to be more informative, and more exciting! The perspective of Americans working in China seems to be quite different from that of stay-behind political pundits.