Vote Count
**Thing Fish - 6 ** (anyrose, Blaster Master, RyJae, The Unkempt One, Zsofia, Oredigger77)
**anyrose - 2 ** (twickster, cckerberos)
**peekercpa - 1 ** (fluiddruid)
**Koldanar - 1 ** (bufftabby)
**RyJae - 1 ** (Thing Fish)
**twickster - 1 ** (Hoopy Frood)
Not Voting
Koldanar
Ok I’ve been quite today and that is because I’ve been rereading this thread from the beginning in-between meetings. Unfortunately the only conclusion that I’ve come to is that Thing does a good job of explaining himself after sticking his foot in his mouth. But after reading he doesn’t come off as scummy mainly because he tends to let you know he’s going to do something scummy a couple of posts before he does it and then explains himself afterwards. One of the biggest pieces of advice give so far is to make your motivations very clear and he seems to be trying to do that.
But, and that is a Jaylo sized but, I don’t have anyone else pinging my radar and I can’t even switch to an OMGUS vote any more. The only thing that comes close is MasterBlaster seems to be dictating the direction that the game is going, and like I’ve said before I think that it is a good direction, but it bothers me to being led around by the nose even if it’s to a pasture of clover. So no FOS at him but I am watching closely.
It seems to me that anyrose is antagonizing Thing Fish. That in and of itself isn’t scummy, but this seems decidedly UNHELPFUL, regardless of what side anyrose is on:
I do expect other players to do exactly what you don’t seem to feel like doing. If you are Town, you should want to help Town, not be completely ambivalent as to whether you help Town or just create a bigger mess. It is not helpful if you are Town to distract discussion from catching scum by simply not caring how you are perceived. At this point, I’m gonna
unvote Koldanar
And downgrade that vote to FoS Koldanar, followed by a decision to
vote anyrose
And really, what makes you say that he is leading this game around? Is it the large strategy postings, or is it that he has voted for our picene friend, and alot of others have followed suit?
I know Blaster has been a huge presence in the game, but don’t automatically assume it’s something to be suspicious of. I’m beginning to think you do have something to hide as well, by pushing this type of suspicion in line with Thing Fish.
It’s about time though, I haven’t seen anything to change my percentages;
vote Thing Fish
where the frick do you get that? none of my comments were directed to him (that *would * have been antagonizing) I was just trying to do what everyone has been begging me to do
Based on this (your comment and the several before) I apparently am not in a position to play the game the way it ought ot be played. Fine. Regardless of my personal like or dislike of the game, I apparently should not be playing at all.
whatever. Why don’t you all just change your votes from **Thing Fish ** to me and get it over with.
We yes it is the large strategy post and the fact that people keep going to him for clarification and then deferring to his experience. I think the vote towards Thing and then people agreeing is a separate issue because like I said everything he says makes sense and most people reached that conclusion on their own.
From the one other game that I’ve followed there does tend to be discussion about strategy at the beginning but this seems more like him stating a strategy and everyone going yep that’s a good idea, which again they are good ideas. Which is why I’m saying he’s leading. I’m just not sure if it’s good or bad.
What is it that you’re referring to that “everyone has been begging” you to do?
I don’t see any reason you shouldn’t continue to play. No one is trying to discourage you from playing. What I do want to encourage you to do is consider how your comments will make others perceive your potential affiliations. It is no good for Town to have a player who does not consider whether s/he appears scummy or not. I don’t want the player gone, I want the behavior gone. It is your unwillingness to change this that leads me to conclude that there is a reasonable chance that you are scum. Hell, the player you claim to find most scummy is leading in votes right now. You should be pleased. The Day is heading in the direction you steered it.
You give me way too much power. Remember, I am a noob with limited experience, and none at all playing with this crowd. The game and a half in which I have experience are very different. More role playing (imagining myself in that location, behaving like a denizen) and less analytical dissection.
As for how my comments are perceived by those with experience, I cannot help what is inferred, since that is extremely subjective.
From my POV, this is not a noob-friendly game at all.
How on earth could you possibly figure out who’s scum over a message board unless you rooted through what they said?
So, the leading vote-getter is not the person you began the bandwagon against? :dubious:
It is subjective, but it is not completely unpredictable, were you to bother trying to predict it. It seems to me that you would rather complain than search for scum, which seems pretty scummy to me.
since when is one vote a bandwagon? Did I ask everyone else to follow suit?
I have said a few different things - some in defense of my vote, some explaining my posting habits, and only lately “complaining” about the game
(from your comment it would seem anyone who voices a personal reaction is complaining)
You seem to be jumping on the “rip anyrose a new one” bandwagon. That’s damned scummy!
I have not seen anyone ripping anyrose a new anything. I would like you to play in a way that is beneficial to Town. I think that is a reasonable expectation. I don’t know for certain if you are just frustrated, or if you are scummy, I just know that you don’t seem interested in helping Town. If that changes, I’ll be happy to review the situation, but I currently see no reason to remove my vote from you.
chalk it up to frustration at not being able to follow the trains of thought that keep colliding.
Well, at this point it seems pretty clear that I am about 29 hours away from becoming the first confirmed Townie in the game, so I am going to follow my own General Advice for Newbies (yeah, I said it…whaddaya gonna do, kill me??) and start trying to help out the Town posthumously by posting some thoughts that hopefully people may be inclined to take more seriously tomorrow than they will today.
Unfortunately, the work-flow gods have been harsh to me…they gave me lots of free time to jam both feet well into my esophagus on Monday, very little to try to extricate them since. I haven’t really had much time to carefully examine posts that didn’t call attention to themselves by demanding my death, so the best I can do is try to examine this wacky bandwagon.
I realize it is a pretty subtle distinction between defending yourself and explaining why all the people voting for you are either scum or misguided, but these are the only parts of the thread I have really had time to keep up with. Although obviously I would like it if people unvoted me, I did say some really stupid things early on and I can’t really fault anyone who still feels that I am the best lynching candidate.
Post 97 – I intially commit the sin of trying to add some humor and color to my random vote.
Post 116 – **anyrose ** OMGUSes me. Contrary to what has been implied, I did not criticize her for this (and I don’t think it was unreasonable), though some others did, in a mild kind of way. She does get a little touchy around here, especially in 128 and 135.
142: I point out that anyrose amended my post when quoting in a very misleading fashion, a fairly scummy behavior that doesn’t seem to have attracted much notice in light of the fact that this post also contained my spectacularly misguided suggestion that there might be some reason why she was voting for, and repeatedly being pissy towards, me rather than twickster, and my infamous “general advice” which has been repeatedly misinterpreted as telling her not to defend herself. (To clarify, I have of course been defending myself right and left the last couple days; the difference is that people have been voting for me based on what I actually said, not on some obvious joke rationale, so there is actually something to discuss.
Shortly thereafter, OD77 and RyJae are critical of this post, then in 153, BlaMreally lays into me, with the first appearance of the “he told anyrose not to defend herself!” meme.
154 – anyrose "feh"s me! Twice! Oh, the horror…
165 – I offer my response to BlaM’s assertion that I told her not to defend herself. This still stands as my response to that, if people would like to go check…
188 - BlaM isn’t buying it, says that I “made a case and got a reasonable response from her” (both of which are kind of dubious assertions IMO) and that I should now unvote her, I haven’t, ergo I’m likely scum and he votes for me.
200 - RyJae, who has had little to say thus far, pops in to vote for me.
213 - Unkempt contributes possibly the goofiest post thus far for which I am not personally responsible. See my post 289 for fuller discussion of how he has distorted what I said to a degree that I find hard to believe could be honest misunderstanding. Seriously, go back and compare what he said I said to what I actually said, and draw your own conclusions.
231-2: I attempt to further address BlaM’s concerns, and somewhat belatedly change my vote from anyrose** to RyJae**. Alarmed at how the votes have been piling up against me since BlaM started spewing venom at me, I caution people against being overly influenced by his opinions. I seriously err by not clarifying that I was talking about his distortions and bandwagon-driving against me, and not about his more general advice on strategy. However, I ask you to read the post and see if you think I was anything other than merely ambiguous on that point.
246: BlaM rejects my explanation of my “advice for newbies”, as well as my explanation of why I felt qualified to give advice to newbies in the first place, and somehow conjures up some mythical strawman argument in which I accused him of misquoting me (never happened). He also accuses me of making another strawman argument; I can’t even figure out what I was supposed to have been arguing in that case.
248 and 252 :** BlaM** is now acting suspicious of me for doing exactly what he said I should do earlier, removing my vote from anyrose. Also falsely states that I was “all suspicious” of anyrose for OMGUSing me (likewise, never happened).
253 and 255: Koldanar falsely states that I did advise people not to follow BlaM’s general advice on strategy. RyJae quickly chimes in to second that emotion.
270: OD77 votes for me.
291: I again attempt to explain and apologize for my inadverdently scum-appearing actions, and plead for mercy.
304: Koldanar votes for me.
And that’s about where we stand. I am done for today, I’ll be back tomorrow to try to analyze the above and identify the most likely scum. After that, I will be available for further discussion, but most likely on the forbidden thread…
Ok, lets review?
So, what you’re saying is you were smudging the man, but still accepted his talk of strategy? At this point of the game, BlaM had only been advising on general strategies; I certainly don’t feel he’s leading me anywhere. He’s far from confirmed townie; no one is as yet. But here you were smudging him, with the heat on you. Not a very townie move, no?
I actually quoted exactly what you said in my post # 213, and then I commented on it. I didn’t just make up some random quote by you in order to make a comment. Also, my comments had nothing to do with your roses=funerals=murder victims comments, but rather focused mainly on what you said in post # 163.
You said, and I quote:
to which I said:
It seems to me that you were making an argument for reasons to vote for anyrose, but wanted to see how much flack you were going to take for it when you said:
That is what originally caught my attention and caused my first comments. I don’t really see the disconnect between what you said and my comments. It all seems pretty coherent to me.
While you are right that other places do not typically play Mafia as analytically as the SDMB, what remains to be seen is if there’s really any justification (from the standpoint of optimal play) to do otherwise.
Sure, we can all play sloppy and skim over the thread, reading random posts that strike our interest. Unfortunately that ends up being a scum advantage.
While I’ll agree that the analytics can be wearying at times, it is important to see everything that’s said. What can turn out to be a relatively minor observation (why are you asking so many questions about x? why did you ask about power role z?) is often a scum slip and it’s been pretty well documented that this is a good way to find scum more frequently, especially in the early game when detecting roles play little to no real role.
Sorry that you’re not liking the game so far. I know the first day of the first game I had my doubts. But, unfortunately, it’s very difficult to teach the game without being referential, because referencing experience is indeed how we learn. For example, my point previously about the minor observation was hammered into me largely by my last game, where my only contribution of note was pointing out that MadtheSwine was asking an awful lot of questions about the Detective right at the start of Day 2. Turns out he was scum. That taught me something.
Don’t worry. It’s easy to become really flustered because this is by nature a game of antagonism and accusations. Vanilla townspeople in particular have to be. But, give it time and it’ll come more easily, especially when/if you play scum, if you’re not now. The More You Know, and all that. Just read the thread, and take note of your reactions and thoughts, then (importantly) check out how your thoughts now register later.
It’s hard to do very much this early. The game right now is very tough for Town. We have the manpower but no information. Tomorrow there will be more, and by days 3 and 4 we’ll have an awful lot of actual substance to discuss.
I had to travel one day early but will be on the ground by 10 pm CST. I will make a pledge to get caught up and get a vote down before morning.
22 hours to deadline
Vote Count
**Thing Fish - 7 ** (anyrose, Blaster Master, RyJae, The Unkempt One, Zsofia, Oredigger77, Koldanar)
**anyrose - 3 ** (Dotchan, cckerberos, bufftabby)
**peekercpa - 1 ** (fluiddruid)
**RyJae - 1 ** (Thing Fish)
**twickster - 1 ** (Hoopy Frood)
Dotchan is replacing twickster.
anyrose has requested a replacement.
FTR - and this is what I told CoG888 - I am leaving because I cannot keep up. You’re all much more experienced and I and I feel I am drowning in the logic battles. Perhaps the next newbie friendly game will be a newbies only game…?