I doubt Thomas will try an pull rank on Bates anytime soon. And since a valet answers directly to his master Carson & Barrow will have as much authority over Bates as Mrs Hughes does over O’Brien.
One wonders if his lordship really fought off every one of those kisses. Seriously it looks like Grantham’s principle reason for keeping Thomas around was because of his cricket skills.
I think Violet genuinly feels sorry for Ethel not being able to make a life for herself when she’s clearly repented. The little scene with Ethel crying in the middle of the street demonstrates that. And she then proceeds to fix the problem in the most presumptious manner possible; putting job wanted ads in a paper without telling her. Just like she took it upon herself to get Mously & William exempted from the draft without consulting them.
He would’ve still been the heir, but would’ve been carted off to an institution like the Queen Mum’s cousins were and died unmarried. Speaking off; Lady Rose is only 2 years younger than Elizabeth Bowes-Lyon, and of the same social circle.
He was the government minister (Minister of War?) that violet called to pull strings and get William sent to Downton.
He most certianly would not have discussed Mrs Levinson’s private gynaecological condition with Mr Crawley.
Insanity wasn’t a ground for divorce in England until 1937. Until 1923 adultery on the husband’s part wasn’t grounds for divorce either; only on the wife’s part. Women could only get divorces for cruelty, adultery coupled with incest, of if their husband cohabitated with his mistress.
When they were discussing the baptizing of Sybil at the dinner party I wondered about the use of the word “tribe” to describe… family/country/religion? Is this word currently used in the UK or Ireland today as such?
Yeah, my reaction was basically “Characters have been outed on Glee with more serious consequences than this.” I expected the episode to end with Thomas getting a respectable reference and going off to work abroad, not with him getting a promotion and everyone being more or less okay that he was sticking around. He’s been so hostile and scheming for years that I’d expect that, amongst the servants at least, even those who didn’t care about his sexuality would be happy to see him go.
I can, however, buy that Lord Grantham continues to be (perhaps willfully) clueless and decided that Thomas hadn’t really done anything wrong and that it would be a shame to lose their best cricket player right before the big game over something that was “really” just a big misunderstanding.
A couple of questions about the cricket match. First, how long might the game have lasted? And second, did they take a tea break and then have about five minutes of gameplay before the end of the match?
It goes against Lord Grantham’s set-in-his-ways persona. Aside from that he’s basically authorizing sexual assault by a member of his staff against a member of his staff. At best I can see a recommendation and dismissal based on someone talking him into it.
That’s the thing; Lord Grantham doesn’t view this as a sexual assault or anything like remotely as serious. To him it’s just a minor annoyance (that he put up with in boarding school) and James is making a fuss over nothing. To his credit he probally would take the matter much more seriously if this were a footman sneaking into a maid’s room and doing the same thing (though he’d be quick think she must have let him on somehow). A double standard isn’t really going against his persona. Nor is thinking homosexuality is something comical. However I agree that realisticly a good reference is the best that Thomas could’ve hoped for; armed with one he wouldn’t have too much trouble finding another valet’s job, or becoming a butler in a smaller household.
Hypocrisy? Edith was surprised that the farmer would find her attractive; had anybody ever noticed her with The Beautiful Mary around? He kissed her & she kissed him back. But it went no further & she had to quit the farm work that she enjoyed. (In the real world, she would have joined the land girls & seen the country. Just as Sybil would have done nursing in a big London hospital. Alas, they were trapped in The Downton Triangle.)
Edith wanted to write for the paper and did not want the editor’s attraction to wreck things. If one has made a mistake, is it hypocrisy to avoid further mistakes? Of course, if her family keep reminding her that she’ll never find a husband (after driving away her best prospect), she might eventually decide to settle for less. Divorce reform was a popular cause in those days; the insane wife or husband was a common literary theme…
Don’t remind me. :mad: I’m still pissed that we didn’t get to see any of Sybil’s time at the nursing college or any of her interaction with the other nurses. IIRC there was often hostility between the VAD nurses and the professional nursing sisters. Sybil under the command of some battleaxe matron from working class origins who looks down her nose at the aristocratic young ladies who want to “pitch in” and have their heads filled with romatic ideas of nursing officers back to health; I think that would’ve been more entertaining (& cheaper) then taking us to the front.
Itty Bitty nitpick. Matthew, according the british ‘class’ system certainly isn’t working class. The working class are factory workers, farm hands, blue collar. Matthew is at the very minimum upper middle class.
Aristocrats certainly ‘would’ have put someone who actually worked in a profession as below them. Aristocrats played at politics, the military and managing their estates, and that’s about it.
Carson’s been working there for quite some time, which maybe makes him more familiar with the Earl than he otherwise would be. As for Anna and Matthew, he’s not entirely at home with the servants thing anyway and is, at heart, pretty egalitarian.
I wonder if you saw an edited version, because that’s not quite what happened. They were becoming closer, to the point where he was openly flirting with Edith. Edith did nothing to discourage him, and in fact, openly participated in the flirtation. The wife overheard and started keeping an eye on them. Later, she witnessed them kissing in the barn.
One of the reasons, and perhaps the only reason it went no further was because, shortly afterward, Edith was unceremoniously fired. Or rather “her kind and generous services were no longer required,” as the letter, which was read aloud by her father over family breakfast, said. Edith was crestfallen and quite distressed by her separation, and it wasn’t because she was going to miss driving the tractor.
I’ve got a feeling that we have yet to see what a devious A-hole Thomas can be.
In particular, the bit where he told Bates “The tub and the bar of soap” but nothing else. At some point I think Thomas is going to use that as leverage against Bates.
I’m not sure how, but I can’t shake the feeling that this is going to bite Bates in the ass.
I disagree. I think we’ll see a change in Thomas now that he knows who his true friends and enemies are.
WRT Thomas’s new status, he is on a career path towards being a butler, so it’s appropriate. Bates will be Lord Grantham’s valet until one of them dies. So there’s no competition between Bates and Thomas.
I predict that somewhere down the line, Thomas will save Bates’ life or at least his ass and show he is a new man. Or else Thomas will bake a poison pie and feed it to O’Brien. And I wouldn’t blame him.
I don’t think Edith was being a hypocrite. In fact, quite the opposite. She learned from past experiences (with the farmer) and took steps to make sure it didn’t happen again. How is that being a hypocrite? Sounds like someone who learned her lesson well.
I think Bates and Thomas are going to have decent relationship. Bates saved Thomas’s ass here and Thomas knows it. They are no longer in competition for the same job. I don’t think Bates has any desire to be butler, and Thomas certainly would like to be as high up as he can, and so has no more desire to be a valet.
I do see Thomas working to bring down O’Brien, though. They were thick as thieves and then suddenly something changed. Was it simply Alfred coming on board?
I saw the PBS version & have never bothered to watch any of Series 2 again–because of the dreadful writing. Still, there wasn’t more than a kiss. She certainly didn’t screw a man to death in her bedroom.
And Edith decided not to get involved with a married man again. Why is that hypocrisy?
I think the suggestion of hypocrisy was not about Edith’s avoiding an affair herself, but in reacting with such revulsion to that of her cousin. That being said, I disagree. Edith once kissed a married man; little cuz is far, far, beyond the beyond of anything Edith would ever consider doing.
The cabby: He may have been concerned that he would be blamed for the young lady coming to harm. He was, after all, transporting her. In a place where young ladies are considered weak and unintelligent, the men surrounding them feel an obligation to protect them. He couldn’t stop her, but he didn’t feel right leaving her either.
Why is everyone so worried about Thomas being superior to Bates? Lord Grantham is Bates only real boss. Meanwhile they have made Thomas James’ immediate superior ferchrissakes! How utterly appalling for poor Jimmy!!
I’m the one who called Edith’s reaction to the editor hypocritical. I stand by it, and am honestly surprised that so many people are having trouble seeing it.
Nope…
The hypocrisy was her over-the-top reaction: she traveled to London (which is several hours from Yorkshire by train) to get in the editor’s face, when previously she’d encouraged a married man’s advances and went so far as to kiss him – and, as someone else point out, may have gone even further if the man’s wife hadn’t fired her.
Not wanting to repeat a mistake is one thing. She could have resigned via letter or telephone, and simply stated that she’d changed her mind. Or, she could have been less haughty in person. Instead, she went to a great deal of trouble to get on a soapbox. Acting as though you are above the mere suggestion of impropriety – when your prior actions prove otherwise – is practically the definition of “hypocrite” (“a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue”).
Seriously it looks like Grantham’s principle reason for keeping Thomas around was because of his cricket skills.