[QUOTE=threemae]
Also, I’ve never been a little girl, but when I was a little boy about that age, having full-grown men ask to shake my hand as an adult was the best feeling in the world.
[/QUOTE]
I have to agree as well. Not having been a little girl, I still strongly suspect that girls prefer hugs. In general.
[QUOTE=threemae]
The woman needed to be told unequivocally and without any sort of, “well, maybe it’ okay because you had a rough childhood or your depressed or no one is affectionate towards you…” crap that her behavior was unacceptable and needed to stop.
[/QUOTE]
Hold on here.
I’ve been hearing this bullshit for years now, and I call bullshit.
When has a psychologist, leftist, or any other touchy-feelyist ever – EVER – said that it was OK to continue destructive behavior because of a bad childhood? I challenge you or anyone else to come up with even one cite.
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
Nothing wrong with being a duly licensed and certified clinical psychologist. They help a lot of people. Just don’t mistake him for a medical doctor.
[/QUOTE]
Right you are, Sir Qadgop. Indeed, CCPs do lots of good work.
And some sell diet supplements. And lots of books. 
And… a personality cult of their own!
[QUOTE=Qadgop the Mercotan]
No, he is not a shrink. He’s not an MD, not a psychiatrist. He’s a clinical psychologist. As such he does not prescribe medications. He does promote diet supplements, though. :rolleyes:
Nothing wrong with being a duly licensed and certified clinical psychologist. They help a lot of people. Just don’t mistake him for a medical doctor.
[/QUOTE]
Since when is a psychologist not a shrink? Since when does a shrink need to be and MD?
[QUOTE=tdn]
Since when is a psychologist not a shrink? Since when does a shrink need to be and MD?
[/QUOTE]
People seem to associate the “head shrinker” thing to Psychiatrists (MDs) more than Clinical Psychologists. That said, Ye Trusty Old Webster says:
3 [short for headshrinker] : a clinical psychiatrist or psychologist
My father is a Clinical Psychologist (PhD) by training (M.Ed. / teacher by choice - taught in a psychiatric hospital school for years). His anglophone friends have always referred to him as a “shrink” when teasing. That’s kind of why I’ve always tossed Clinical Psychos (!) in the headschrinker category.
In French, we tease him by calling him a “petitchiatre” (as opposed to “psychiatre” - psychiatrist) which is a play on words that would have “littlechiatrist” as an english equivalent
Hee.
I got this off Dr. Phil’s website:
"Some viewers have raised questions about whether the Dr. Phil show reported Jim and Karen to the authorities after the taping of this show. Other viewers have expressed surprise that Karen and Jim’s children were allowed to go home with them after the show.
Please be assured that immediately following the taping of “A Mother’s Rage,” the Dr. Phil show did make a report to local child protection authorities. As a mental health professional, Dr. Phil is required by law to make such a report if he has concerns about the safety, welfare or well being of a child. However, Dr. Phil does not himself have the authority to remove children from their parents’ home.
Remember that a lot happens after the taping of a show that TV viewers never get to see. Dr. Phil’s staff draws on a vast network of experts and mental health professionals to help Dr. Phil guests. Karen’s family is just one of many to have received this assistance."
[http://drphil.com/](Dr. Phil Show)
[QUOTE=threemae]
The woman needed to be told unequivocally and without any sort of, “well, maybe it’ okay because you had a rough childhood or your depressed or no one is affectionate towards you…” crap that her behavior was unacceptable and needed to stop. Is television to best forum for it? Probably not, but it’s where things happened to get played out. Since my understanding is that Dr. Phil is a cognitive-behavioral therapist, this isn’t even a bad jumping off point for behavioral therapy; simply not allowing herself to be in situations where she has behaved badly in the past.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, he did ask her if her behavior stemmed from being molested as a kid, or from having to take care of the kids all the time instead of having a job outside the home. He didn’t tell her that those reasons would be an excuse or that it wasn’t her fault though. I don’t know what he usually says though, because I only watched the episode because I saw this thread.
Yea, this sounds about right to me.
[QUOTE=threemae]
Oh and another thing: The only thing that’s better than a TV personality with 6 years of training and years of clinical practice at being a clinical psychologist playing therapist?
A Doper with no training or practice in clinical psychology making a drive-by diagnosis of, “she’s got somethin’!”
[/QUOTE]
Absolutely. It takes much more than casual observation to know for sure that someone who beats the shit out of their kids on a consistent basis has issues.
I’m not disputing that she has issues. I am disputing the claim made by the OP that the most pressing course of action is to provide the mom with psychotherapy on national television as opposed to telling her to knock it off in no uncertain terms and ensuring that she is not in a position to continue to abuse her kids.
[QUOTE=tdn]
When has a psychologist, leftist, or any other touchy-feelyist ever – EVER – said that it was OK to continue destructive behavior because of a bad childhood? I challenge you or anyone else to come up with even one cite.
[/QUOTE]
I’m not making that assertion that pschotherapists would condone such behavior, it’s in response to the OP saying things like, “not helping this poor lunatic at all.” The victims here are her kids, not her.
I’m no hater of the clinical psychologists. My sister is working on her masters in clinical psychology right now and I have a BA in psychology. On the whole, I think that most modern psychologists are much more clever and level-headed than the general population gives them credit for. Sure, there are some bad ones, but there are bad ones in every profession.
But I wasn’t talking about the clincal psychologist in the thread, I was talking about the OP.
[QUOTE=threemae]
I’m not disputing that she has issues. I am disputing the claim made by the OP that the most pressing course of action is to provide the mom with psychotherapy on national television as opposed to telling her to knock it off in no uncertain terms and ensuring that she is not in a position to continue to abuse her kids.
[/QUOTE]
Ah, then I think we’re both saying the same thing. The first priority should be getting the kids help and making sure she can’t hurt them anymore. Regardless of that, the mom still needs help, or the cycle of abuse is going to continue. My whole beef with Dr. Phil and Montel and Oprah and blah blah blah is that instant gratification expectation. People seem to think one hour on a show will cure all their ills. I was gratified to learn that CPS was involved.
[QUOTE=threemae]
But I wasn’t talking about the clincal psychologist in the thread, I was talking about the OP.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I pretty much got that. The thing is, the OP never said that the woman gets a pass because she had a troubled childhood. So I don’t know where you got that from.
Is the woman actually mentally ill? Or just a bully? IMnseO I’d guess that anyone who beats a child is not fully functioning mentally, no matter what you call it. If we are to help the kids, we need to help their mother. Simply telling her to stop is about as effective as telling a smoker to stop smoking. It just ain’t that easy.
To review:
Again, I’m not ruling out that she has some sort of mental illness but that in no way excuses her behavior. Dr. Phil’s one hour show was not a venue for getting at the roots of this woman’s problems. It was hopefully a means of avoiding any future harm to the kids and involving CPS.
Out of curiosity, what if the perpetrator here had been a man? I seem to recall a rather extensive history of SDMB Pit threads calling for harmers of children to be strung up from the most convenient available lamp post. Now the OP chides Dr. Phil for coming down too hard on this woman and saying, “but fuuuuck, I could diagnose people better than Dr. Phil.” Even though no one in this thread has yet to suggest a plausible, recognized Axis-I or Axis-II disorder which would explain this woman’s behavior.
Much to my shock and chagrin, from what I hear from my psychology professors the APA DSM-V will not contain entries for:
Regardless of this particular episode, it’s my impression that the thread title is still accurate. Or perhaps “jerk” would be better than “moron.” My dearest, closest friend watches this show religiously, and it just boggles my mind. From bits of shows I’ve seen and commercials for it, it appears to be nothing more than a sociological freak show - “Hey look, middle America, these people are fucked up beyond all reason! Let’s watch them wallow in their misery, and then blame them for it!” I suspect the reason for the show’s success is that it’s a big ol’ self-esteem crutch for the average viewer - “Oooh, I’m so much better than *those * people!”
Anyway, correct me if I’m wrong,* but aren’t there interventions and educational methods that can help correct/prevent family violence, even if the perpetrator is not DSM-IV material? I.e., regardless of the presence of an official mental illness, this family would benefit from professional help, such as anger management classes or cognitive behavioral therapy. Berating and publicly humiliating someone who doesn’t know whence their behavior springs or how to change it doesn’t seem at all helpful. (Berating and humiliating perhaps might do some good if the perpetrator doesn’t think she is doing anything wrong, I suppose, but not if she wants to stop already.)
*I’m basing this on a vague recollection of a program in Hawaii that educated poor pregnant women on parenting, anger management, etc., and found that the rate of child abuse in the educated group was much lower than their peers. And also a study on domestic violence by husbands that found if a man had a job and social connections, he was likely to change his behavior after education.
[QUOTE=AerynSun]
Anyway, correct me if I’m wrong,* but aren’t there interventions and educational methods that can help correct/prevent family violence, even if the perpetrator is not DSM-IV material? I.e., regardless of the presence of an official mental illness, this family would benefit from professional help, such as anger management classes or cognitive behavioral therapy. Berating and publicly humiliating someone who doesn’t know whence their behavior springs or how to change it doesn’t seem at all helpful.
[/quote]
Yes - which is why the whole family is receiving therapy, on Dr. Phil’s dime. Also, CPS was contacted and is intervening.
Well, I actually watched the program (my eyes! MY EYES!!!), and I certainly didn’t get the impression that the woman was overly remorseful, based on her affect and demeanor, and my very limited training in such things. I didn’t get the impression that Dr. Phil, who has a helluva lot more training than I do, thought she was particularly contrite either - hence the wake up call. Based on the woman’s behaviour, I thought Dr. Phil’s response was actually quite tempered and even.
As far as I’m concerned, the only diagnosis that the woman legitimately has is “Assholitis” and a bit of public humiliation probably isn’t a bad thing.
That being said, I too am glad that those poor children are getting help.
[QUOTE=alice_in_wonderland]
As far as I’m concerned, the only diagnosis that the woman legitimately has is “Assholitis” and a bit of public humiliation probably isn’t a bad thing.
[/QUOTE]
Right. My thought on the matter were that if she can manage to control her temper in public because she doesn’t want to be embarrased, perhaps additional social pressure to not behave like this is private might have some effect of mediating her behavior.
This isn’t an obsession and compulsion relating to smacking her kids.
[QUOTE=AerynSun]
Regardless of this particular episode, it’s my impression that the thread title is still accurate. Or perhaps “jerk” would be better than “moron.” My dearest, closest friend watches this show religiously, and it just boggles my mind. From bits of shows I’ve seen and commercials for it, it appears to be nothing more than a sociological freak show - “Hey look, middle America, these people are fucked up beyond all reason! Let’s watch them wallow in their misery, and then blame them for it!” I suspect the reason for the show’s success is that it’s a big ol’ self-esteem crutch for the average viewer - “Oooh, I’m so much better than *those * people!”
.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I think most “reality” TV is a huge self esteem crutch for the average viewer. I can’t think of a single such show that doesn’t make me thing, “Whoa, I’ m fucked up but at least I wont eat a bug/strip on tv/ etc etc”
That said, my friend actually went on Dr. Phil after he was nominated by some friends. I believe the show was about over coming barriers in life or something of that nature.
Anywho, my friend went on, told the story of how his mom was on drugs and beat him, then he ended up in the foster care system, etc. Then talked about how he now works as a volunteer advocate for foster kids. Dr. Phil surprised my friend with the following:
[ul]
[li]Dr. Phil (the show, not the man. . . although, I’m not 100% sure) agreed to pay for my friend’s tuition through a MA degree, along with text books and any other incidental cost. [/li][li]A free, paid, one month trip to Europe to travel and study different places.[/li][li]A free computer and lap top.[/li][li]Free therapy with some great shrinks (hehe) down in LA (or here in Bakersfield, if he so chose).[/li][/ul]
My friend said that Phil was a bit of a diva backstage, but other than that a very nice, helpful guy. The entire staff is helpful too, from what I hear. In fact, that same friend wanted to get a car but, because he lacked credit, couldn’t get financing. Dr. Phil’s producer called my friend a few days later for an update. He explained he was a bit bummed about the car thing and the next day the dealership called back, told him it had been handled, and quoted him a price $5k less than what they originally offered.
So Phil might be a bit of a jerk on the show, but it’s TV. No one would watch if he was all puppies and rainbows. Sensationalism sells.
Lawdamighty, I wasn’t trying to diagnose the woman. I just felt like she could use a good evaluation from a professional who is used to dealing with rage issues.
Hell, my dad was kinda like that mom–he didn’t beat the crap out of us like that, but he certainly used that type of language. And then as I got older and had my own child I felt the same sort of anger creeping up on me and I couldn’t figure out why. After all, I hated being treated like that, why would I do it to my own kid?
I don’t have those answers, but I think they amount to more than her being a “bully.” There is help out there for people like that, but I am fairly certain that Dr. Phil isn’t the answer to those kid’s prayers.
Also, an afternoon Dr. Phil vent was just that…a vent. No need to pick apart everything I said. Great if you disagree, but I’m not an idiot and don’t need to be spoken to as if I am.
[QUOTE=Indygrrl]
Also, an afternoon Dr. Phil vent was just that…a vent. No need to pick apart everything I said. Great if you disagree, but I’m not an idiot and don’t need to be spoken to as if I am.
[/QUOTE]
Well, then it’s a good thing that you write those feelings down in a nice quiet place where no one will harass you over them… like the Pit.
I don’t think you’re stupid, I just disagree with your take on Dr. Phil.
[QUOTE=threemae]
Well, then it’s a good thing that you write those feelings down in a nice quiet place where no one will harass you over them… like the Pit.
[/QUOTE]
W’all, when you’ve got a snit, a bit of Pit might be it. I mean, it don’t take a lot of heart to start, and if you’re in the wrong forum, ignore 'em. Why, this takes no more sense than a henhouse on a hill. If you’ve got pain, just frame your name to claim the same chain of game of… train… cane… we’ll be right back…