Drowning - is it a slow, agonizing death?

I’ve always heard that drowning is the most pleasant way to go, I even had a close friend who was so convinced by this that he drowned himself.
Of course I’ll never know if he was right, but he based this on the fact that people that are drowning stop struggling a few seconds before they lose consciousness. This lead him (and lot of other people actually) to speculate that all the endorfin stuff in the brain gets released just before the moment of no return.

Of course this may all have been wishful thinking, but I recommend someone look it up in scientific literature, my friend claimed to have read some convincing documents on “the ecstacy of drowning”.

— G. Raven

p.s. if I ever run into him at a seiance (or however you spell it) I’ll get back to ya

The OP asked if water temperature had any effect on death from drowning.

Yes, it can.

Very very cold water can knock you out or even kill you before you have a chance to drown. We lose a couple people each year that way to Lake Michigan. When the water temp is in the 30s (several months of the year) if you fall in you’ll feel an incredible icy shock, then about 30 seconds later you’ll be unconcious. Rapidly falling body temperature will be what kills you, not lack of oxygen. In fact, every winter they seem pull folks out of the water who have been under 20 minutes to an hour and revive them, the cold water having lowered the body’s metabolic rate to where the brain doesn’t use the body’s on board supply of oxygen over that time.

obviously, the fact that I am still alive and posting means that anything I have to say on this subject is only an opinion.

However, given that my son’s degree is in forensic science, I would like to make the comment that as far as the autopsy reports I have read and as far as the post-mortem photographs I have seen go (email me for the links to them if you are really that curious) drowning does not seem to be a particularly traumatic way of dying.

BIG WARNING TO PEOPLE WHO DON’T WANT TO KNOW THE GRUSESOME DETAILS

People who drown essentially die from asphyxiation. (the vast majority of people die from one form of asphyxiation or another anyway) The way that the corpses look doesn’t necessarily reflect the trauma involved. Drowned corpses usually look bloated, but in cases of voluntary drowning, there is very little physical evidence of distress. I’m gonna hand this thread over to my son, whose specialty is forensic science. There are ways to measure the trauma involved in the process of death - in general, if you had to pick a way to go, hypothermia would be it.

oh shit - sorry Tuba - I realise that what I just posted is going to be very offensive to some members of this board :frowning:

for those who are curious - yes I do hold a diver’s licence and I am well aware of the effects of nitrogen narcosis. (you can’t dive in Australia without a licence - YMMV)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Whack-a-Mole *
**This is what I remember from some of my scuba classes:

Thanks Whack-a-Mole! Great post, if a little sobering. :slight_smile:

SilkyThreat, I’m very sorry to hear about your Dad. I hope my original question wasn’t insensitve or upsetting or painful to read.

Thanks for the link!

Badtz Maru:

I hear what you are saying and I agree. I did say that my numbers are very loose. That said pick an average person form your office and ask them to hold their breath and I doubt anyone will make it past 2 - 3 minutes.

Part of what helped you was the hyperventilating. My friends never clued in to this trick and I always beat them in breath holding and underwater distance swimming contests. I would also consciously relax which can extend your breath holding a great deal (remarkable how few people know how to do simple relaxation techniques). The other part is simply exercising a little will power when not breathing begins to hurt but putting up with it and going on for awhile longer.

I remember seeing some yoga/contortionist guy cram himself into a little plexiglas box and have himself lowered into a pool on the tv show That’s Incredible. I forget how long he was underwater but it was something like 40 minutes (remember there was some air in the box with him so it doesn’t count to the record Badtz mentioned). Still, it shows how long the body can extend its use of oxygen with the proper preparation and mindset.

In rare cases cold water can also save your life. In Chicago on at least one occasion a kid fell throught the ice and was underwater for 40+ minutes and was successfully revived. The water essentially put the kid into a cryogenic freeze thus drastically slowing all of his body processes. I saw the kid on tv several months later and he was fine except for having lost a good deal of the use of his right hand (due to severe frost bite) but even that was improving.

That said jumping into cold water is FAR more likely to kill you than save you.

How would trauma show on a drowning victim? Thrashing about in water doesn’t cause physical damage. Most of the trauma in this case is in your head as you face your imminent doom. I’d be interested in hearing from your son as I don’t see how an autopsy could tell how easy of a time a person had drowning.

A few years back, a diving medicine specialist did a number of experiments on himself, under fairly controlled conditions, to determine the actual physilogical and mental effects of drowning.

This isn’t pretty, so if you’d rather not know, leave now:
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OK, Here goes:
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This physician, a highly qualified diver, set up his experiment in pool, with rescue divers in the water. He wired himself for various parameters (brain activity, heart rate, respiration, and a bunch of others), put on a weight belt, tied his feet together, and started treading water in the pool. Video shows that while this man was a powerfull swimmer, he began to tire very quickly, and as he tired, he began to lose contact withe the surface of the water. Shortly after he began losing the ability to keep head above the surface, his heart-rate skyrocketed, his brainwaves went berserk, and his previously controlled motions became spasmodic and violent. He drowned. The divers pulled him out, revieved him (He wasn’t down for long), and then he was debriefed before, and after, watching the video. He then did it again. Many times. Same results each time.

His commentary was that it didn’t so much hurt, as it was terrifying, right up to the point where he lost consciousness. Once he lost the ability to reliably get a breath, panic was unavoidable, even with the divers being right there and the knowledge that he’d survived drowning a dozen times or so. It just didn’t matter: The only thing happening at that point was ‘fight for air’.

So: maybe not painfull, but d*mned unpleasant. Fortunately, it really is quick.

Jimmy Tontolovitchz (spelling is phonetic, probably not accurate for real spelling). He was underwater over two hours (divers had trouble finding him under the ice). Although he eventually fully recovered, it took almost four years in rehab. He was “fine” for TV soundbites in a couple months in that he was walking and talking again, but he was delayed in starting school.

Lil’ Jimmy recovered in part because he was so young - he did suffer some brain damage but a toddler can compensate for that in a way adults can’t.

Jimmy’s dad also went through the ice, was recovered after an hour and a half, and did not survive.

Re-warming a cold-water drowning victim is tricky, since the body chemistry is whacked out. It must be done in a hospital setting. Things like seizures are to be expected. So if you pull 'em out cold and blue let the experts heat 'em up, don’t try this at home.

Ain’t spring paddling in the north a blast! Just when you though you had the drowing aspect covered, along comes the cold water drowing aspect.

Cold water immersion leads to hypothermia, which eventually shuts down the extremeties while keeping the (relatively) warm blood in the body’s core. In ice out conditions without wetsuit or drysuit, it starts to make a serious impact after a couple of minutes. As coordination is lost, the ability to self rescue or even assist in being rescued (e.g. hold a rope or the nose of a boat) is also lost. This makes immediate rescue imperative.

In less severe conditions, for example a rainy spring day, the mental process tends to deteriorate over time to the point that people become walking zombies who can’t think to help themselves and sometimes refuse assistance from others.

For mild hypothermia (shivering or shivering until recently) external warmth and sugar based warm drinks do the trick, but for serious hypothermia (e.g. thoroughly passed out with cold for quite some time) it is important to not try to attempt rewarming or to jiggle the person for a sudden surge of cold blood from the extremities could cause heart failue.

The best way to avoid hypothermia is to dress appropriately and keep an eye on each other with frequent spot checks. Aside from shivering, watch for slurred speech, lack of cooordination, and general stupidity. The best way I can describe the feeling of moderate hypothermia is that physically it feels like you are very tired and slow moving, while mentally it is almost like being in a a dream or like waking up very groggy.

Just to make things interesting, there is also something called the mammalian dive reflex, which kicks in immediately on some people (particularly young folks) when they pop their head under very cold water. Essentially everything shuts down as blood is directed to the heart and brain – almost like a sudden paralytic seizure. This can be very problematic, for just when you need the person to cooperate in their own rescue prior to hypothermia becomming a problem, you find that they are unable to move and sometimes even unable to breathe. The best way I can describe the feeling is that it is like a nightmare in which you are lying in front of a car or train which is about to run you down, but there is absolutely nothing you can do to move. The first few times this happened to me I was very scared, for not being able to move while being swept down a river with bergy bits can be a bit unnerving, but eventually I learned to calm down by forcing myself to recall that after about a minute I would be able to move again.

In ice out conditions the combination of dive reflex (the first minute or so) followed by hypothermia (affecting coordination after a couple of minutes) makes the window for rescue quite narrow. This is not that big a deal for experienced, practiced and attentive paddling teams, but unfortunatley is a bit much for most recreational paddlers, who simply are not able to respond quickly and efficiently enough. In short, unless your crew is up to it, wait for warmer water in the season – every degree counts – you would be astounded at the difference between swimming in 1 degree water or swimming in 5 degree water. The window for rescue in the first is very narrow, whereas the window for rescue in the second is somewhat limited, but not anywhere near as narrow.

Yes there have been extraordinary examples of people (particularly children) who due to dive reflex and hypothermia have survived lenghty drowning – essentially the body slows down and blood is directed to the critical areas such as the brain. The flip side of the coin is that an awful lot of folks simply have heart attacks and die when they fall in ice water (although I’ve only witnessed this once).

For folks who have the misfortune to fall into ice water, try to keep your mouth shut, your head tucked to your shoulder, and your face pointing away from the water when you fall in. This can help reduce the effect of the dive reflex (whatever you do, don’t take the cold water shot at the back of your open mouth – this seems to be a trigger point even more than the face). Then swim like the devil for shore with everything you have. Don’t wait a second to collect your wits. Just go for it and do not slow down. This will help you get back to land before you lose coordination (and even will power) from hypothermia, and the heat generated from your effort will buy you some time. Finally, if someone gets a rope to you, wind it around your arm as many times as you can, so that as you lose your ability to function, you don’t drift away.

I pray to God that it isn’t too painful.

My Dad just died from lung cancer. His lungs filled up with fluids. In other words he
drowned.

Air starvation caused him to halucinate so I hope he didn’t know what was happening.

I also hope that the air starvation turned off any pain that the morphine hadn’t stopped.

Dad struggled a lot and I just don’t know if it hurt.

Geez, but that sucks. Terribly sorry for your loss.

My guess is, that (considering what little I know of modern disease management) he didn’t suffer any pain for the fluid in his lungs. He most likely fell asleep/lost consciousness, and passsed quietly. Typically, drowning involves violent struggle. The situation you describe is likely to have been managed with various pain killers, and thus much more peacefull. Still not pleasant, and I feel for you and your family.

Thank you Tranquillis

This may not be typical but he did fight. Even though he was unconcious his legs would raise up as he tried to suck air.This went on until the last when his lungs were full.
He had a very strong heart.Maybe if he hadn’t it wouldn’t have lasted as long as it did.

I’m right with you on that first part, mske.
Ever get a little soda down the ol’ wind pipe?, It usually gives me a choking fit that lasts for several excruciating minutes. I find liquids in my trachea to be MOST unpleasant.

The shotgun idea doesn’t appeal to me either, though.

Has anyone/everyone seen the mpeg of R. Budd Dwyer shooting himself (in the mouth) on national TV? (It’s on the net, and I will refrain from posting a link here, it’s easy enough to find if you do a search.) He didn’t die any too quickly, and blood gushed from his mouth in waves for some time while his heart pumped him empty. :::Shudder:::

I want to go painlessly, instantly, like a bug on a windshield, or maybe a nightmare that scares me to death before I wake up.

Phooey, I had a lengthy response all typed and ready to go, and then I see that you all have covered this part of the topic literally to death. No sense beating a drowned horse.

Something to think about: If you look at of pictures of people that were killed in house fires, you should start to notice that many of them leave very clean images where the fire burned around them as they lay perfectly still, and show no signs of struggle. The autopsies often show clean lungs, and that the victims actually died from breathing in toxic fumes associated with incomplete combustion, and death tends to precede the intense smoke and extreme heat of the inferno. They just drift into deeper and deeper states of unconsciousness. Now THAT sounds like the way to go to me.

Hmm, I wonder how long I would last in an airtight cube. One time I experimented with slowing my breathing - I took one breath every 30 seconds for over 15 minutes and experienced no ill effects.

At least you can take some small comfort that you come from tough, courageous stock.