All good points- thanks.
Mind you, threads where an individual poster is being Pitted are not common. Most are just rants, pitting of public figures etc. Those are not so bad.
Yeah; it’s so common for someone trying to Pit another person to end up being the subject of their own Pitting, that it’s practically a cliche at this point.
The Pit isn’t The Purge where everything is savage. It’s a place where rules are relaxed. Most posts there are just a bit racier than elsewhere on the board. Every once in a while things get nasty (sometimes I get nasty there too) but it’s not the norm.
I’m a bicycle guy. Here’s a sub-forum on the bike forum I haunt:
Ain’t never been there
They tell me it’s nice
I’ll also point out, I kept out of the Pit for years. It sounded unappealing and awful. Not sure why I ended up in there, but now I probably spend half my time on the board there.
I found it’s less “shock jock” and more “mature content”. Not from an obscenity standpoint, but think R-rated movies. And there are some really interesting discussions. There’s less ranting than you’d think.
And like any category, there are some threads I have zero interest in. Some threads are just a couple of small groups of people sniping back and forth and it’s boring.
Moderator Note
While some discussion of the nature of the Pit is relevant to the OP, let’s try to keep all comments focused on the actual topic of this thread. If you want to have a more general discussion of the Pit, feel free, but do so in a new thread.
To tie together - understanding what function The Pit functionally serves for the board overall informs on how one feels about the tactic that was employed.
I personally see its functions well served by mutual combat, preferably creatively even humorously fought. (“Go fuck a cactus” and other lame posts are just embarrassing.) And flooding the zone beyond making the point “heard and don’t care”, ain’t that.
And people bitching with the presumptively offending poster ignoring it does the function fine.
Of course the complainer having it turned on them is serving its function too.
Having actual meaningful conversation with looser rules is a great use of it, and happens a fair amount. Just because rudeness and insults are allowed there does not mean they are required.
Acknowledgement of my bad, and learning to do better? Definitely.
Drowning out complaints about you, if anyone actually has the time and endurance to do that, using a Pit thread as an opportunity to have readership for a personal blog? That does not seem to serve any reasonable possible function for The Pit or the board overall.
IMHO.
Perfectly said. Thank you.
And doesn’t hurt the offending poster at all, be it ever so piled-on with pitchforks, if they are resolute about ignoring pit posts about themselves.
And republican, maga, Trump culture hasn’t empowered the bigots and hate mongers either.
Funny how that is a shield, see no evil, hear no evil, say no evil.
Yeah. Lemme know how that works out for you.
Mostly, but then people get notes from Discourse. Now that we are talking about ignoring, the people here complaining about Becks tactics can simply ignore those posts.
For what events do people getting pitted get notes from Discourse? Does it happen if they don’t get @-ed?
I mean, blog posting is just posting if other people are interested in discussing the things you discuss, which was the case for nearly all of her posts.
Furthermore, it is a means to defend oneself. If other tactics that piss off the people who are upset and attacking you are okay, then it makes no sense to say this particular one isn’t. You still are creating the same deterrent effect that attacking back accomplishes, without doing anything else that is morally abhorrent. “You can attack me, but if you do, I may do this thing, so it better be worth it” discourages frivolous pittings.
That’s my objection: the idea that this particular tactic is somehow beyond the pale, when it is less hateful that many of the tactics y’all are perfectly okay with. Hell, this is a tactic that is itself often used on trolls.
And it was rather overblown. There weren’t that many posts, and it fizzled out predictably. This thread makes it sound far worse than it ever was, and moderating it would have been complete overkill that would long term make things worse.
Because once you start policing how people can respond (beyond bright line hate speech or violence rules and the like), it just becomes a complete mess and loses the entire point of a less rules heavy forum.
Well yeah. As a tactic it is a very stupid one, definitely not “winning the thread” or anything similar. Even someone with lots of time on their hands has only so much endurance. And it completely misunderstands what drives a Pit thread’s persistence. The thread had gone into a mostly comatose state. It had a brief flicker of its eyelids for a relatively trivial complaint, and then went back to near death until chela’s … contribution … but IF Beck started doing the stuff that annoyed so many again it would wake back up. No matter how many months of coma, no matter how many intervening adventures in Beck world posts were sitting there. (If that’s what they were cause yeah easy to scroll past and I did.)
The point is the decision that it is “okay in The Pit”:
MHO:
“hateful” within some range (not hate speech not wishing death some words off limits so on) is a designed function of the Pit. Easier to keep it out of the other fora if there is a place for those angry frustrations to get vented.
“Defense” in the Pit is not about deterrence. It is lots of things but not that. It can be pointing out, convincingly or not, that the attack is simply wrong, calmly. It can be getting into the mud with loose rules, which frankly can be fun sometimes, if that’s the mood you’re in. Again best have a thick skin if you do, and as a reader more often than mud fighter, try to be entertaining! If all you’ve got is “you’re a dumbass” or “go fuck a cactus” then probably you’re more suited to discussing without insults. You are boring. Do the calm thing.
Frivolous Pittings get discouraged because the Pitter usually becomes the Pitee. Or they are so boring that there are zero responses. Less often. Of course there may a divergence of thought about what is frivolous… and having arguments over that assessment IS a function of the Pit.
Really that is a reason the moderation was a mistake. The Pit isn’t a place to troll anymore than anywhere else in the board is, and while a response of the form to let it be known “heard and not worth responding to” is fair, a prolonged series seems to me to be a form of trolling. It is not a sincere wanting to share about your inane life; it is there just to provoke the frustration response as the goal. The essence of trolling.
The moderation call was a mistake in judgment. No big harm, though.
FWIW ISTM that there is broad agreement that Beck has improved as a poster. Maybe having been Pitted has been the feedback she needed to get there?
I will say that in my personal experience @Beckdawrek values this place as much as any other poster. She absolutely gets defensive to perceived slights, just like almost all of us - and sometimes that doubling down makes the situation worse.
Again, like most of us.
But she honestly tries to see where we’re coming from as well, even if she doesn’t always agree.
Back to the OP though - I see the specific tactic as a way to dismiss/disarm her critics without further inflaming those disputes. Probably a better tactic than infinitely repeating her point or martyrdom.
Not what I would do as I said upthread, but probably less harmful than mud flinging.
I would only add that I think actually Beck values this place more than even most frequent regular posters, because as I said in the original Pit thread I think it gives her an outlet that she has lacked in real life due to the deficiencies in her verbal communication abilities that she has shared with us. As I also said there, while I don’t think this gives her a pass to break rules, it does say something about her sincerity and good intentions.
You keep singling out this behavior as if its goal is different from any other deliberately frustrating behavior. It just isn’t.
There are multiple deliberately frustrating behaviors going on in that thread. Quite a lot of snarky posts designed to get under people’s skin. Heck, the thread was raised by someone who wanted to troll the people who had attacked Beck. Yet, while people got frustrated, no one argued they should be forced to stop.
As for entertainment: several people were clearly enjoying themselves, engaging with Beck’s hijack, with a few snarking back at those who got mad at her. And then others were snarking at them. You literally had people praising Beck for her tactics, saying how much they made them laugh. Others were having fun coming up with snarky one liners.
And, again, the behavior itself has always been allowed in the Pit. Hijacks to distract from the original topic are extremely common. That’s all this is. It’s not bigotry. It’s not hate speech. It’s not threats of violence. It’s just annoying people by ignoring them.
The only argument that ever made sense to ban this was the idea that it would take over and make it hard to pit people. But, as we both agree, it predictably stopped after a bit. And, even while it was going on, it didn’t stop people from pitting Beck at all.
It was all a big nothingburger, a storm in a teacup, and the correct course of action was to just let it fizzle out. Beyond stopping bright line rule violations, you intervene as a mod because something won’t solve itself.
Moderator Note
Reminder: This is ATMB, not the Pit. Be respectful of others in ATMB, and focus on the topic, not on other users. If you want to have a go at each other, take it back to the Pit where that sort of behavior belongs.
It’s not beyond the pale. It’s just bad. It subtracts from the boards. It adds noise. It makes this place worse. Hateful attacks can be interesting, incisive, valid. They aren’t always, but they can’t be. But adding noise is never a contribution.
I disagree. Hateful attacks – which admittedly are sometimes justified – have recently driven several valued posters off the board. OTOH, noise as a response to hateful attacks can indeed be a positive contribution in that it’s non-confrontational and may contribute to the calming of unwarranted hostilities.
Name one.