Without alcohol, it would be impossible to tolerate recovering alcoholics.
I consider myself uninformed about the specific situation in Kerry, but I do believe that not all roads are equal, and it is reasonable that the severity of alcohol/driving laws be able to move in more than one direction.
And nobody knows that better than recovering alcoholics. Here you get one of us mentioning it now and then. We have to sit in meetings full of recovering alcoholics! And they insist on talking about their alcoholism! Normals are boring enough but we are much, much worse. As my daddy said, “There’s nothing worse than a reformed whore.”
It’s worse than you can imagine. Just thinking about makes me want a drink.
From the wording it is a little curious that driving after drinking is permissible only if you’ve just left a pub.
It’s unclear from your responses whether you think legal BAL limits should be higher or lower in rural areas than in urban zones. I would argue that either proposition is asinine, but it would be helpful if I knew which particular flavor of stupidity I was dealing with.
Once again, may I present a typical Kerry country road (that’s a 2-lane road, theoretically). These aren’t like rural roads in the US with which I am familiar (10 years driving in NH, 5 years in TX). They are dangerous on a good day.
Johnny? Is that you?
Sure. Sure. Of course you’re the best person to evaluate your own abilities when drunk. This kind of reasoning is why some European countries now has a maximum BAC of 0.02%
I think to have an informed discussion, we need to know the proposed new higher levels. Neither of the articles mention the new higher limit other than the vague reference to “two or three drinks”.
First of all, is sisu’s conversion correct? 50mg = 0.05 BAC?
Kinda seems overly restrictive to me- and I say that only because I hope it will inspire Fuji to post more photos of the beautiful Irish countryside with its charming rural raodways.
I kid because I actually do believe Fuji makes a good point that the specific road conditions need to be considered and that we American Dopers arguing the issue from an America-centric viewpoint take our lovely wide well-lit roads for granted. However, although the roads are narrower and poorly lit, you’d be more likely to not actually encounter any other drivers than if you were on an American road.
Without a number for the new higher limit, I can’t offer a strong opinion.
Well, I can’t offer a strong opinion of the move to raise the limit . . . I can however offer an opinion on the proposed goal of the new legislation: This move is aimed at accomodating the elderly??? Seriously??? We want to encourage more elderly drivers . . . to drive at night???
Yeah, bad goal.
First of all, if people aren’t aware, this has no chance whatsoever of becoming law, and these people have no power whatsoever, they are basically the super plebs of the political system (not that I know that much about the Irish one). Also apparently the ring leader is a bit of an attention whore, an Irish person tells me. Was making noise about a rubbish tip or something a few months ago.
Secondly - I actually think he may have a not-ridiculous point. The key to this is that bit of Ireland really is super rural, and I don’t think it’s unreasaonble to think there’s a good argument for some of those farmers that literally the only time they get out is to the pub twice a week, driving ten or twenty miles along a single track road with no one else on it (apart from other drink drivers). This is not equivilant to drink driving in a city or a fast trunk road.
I also have to say I really resent this anti-alcohol culture that is creeping in everywhere at the moment - sure, it kills you, but you have great fun along the way. And what these guys are proposing is only fairly sensible drinking, I promise you most of these guys could drive well enough after six pints or similar, which is techincally a lot of alochol but nothing to people who drink properly - and again, even if they can’t, there’s nothing to hit.
But it’s haaaaaard for people in that area to have the drunken fun they want without driving themselves. Really really haaaaaard. And opting not to get drunk if they can’t do it when and where they want it just isn’t an option. (This argument is actually fairly common, IME. I’ve seen it on here before. Some people think they have an absolute right to get drunk in a bar, and if society doesn’t hand them a bus, a taxi, or friends willing to drive them to the house they chose to live in, they just get a free pass from the rules.)
Yeah, from what I’ve heard, there are severely economically depressed areas of the Republic of Ireland (14.6% unemployment rate). I know a recovering alcoholic online who volunteers, speaks several languages and has a degree and the nearest restaurant refuses to let him work there even for free. He says he’s applied everywhere within a 20 mile radius. Another family friend moved from Kerry (IIRC) to London for better work prospects. She said she had to either get lifts from family members or the young people in her area would order a coach to town for Friday nights. My batshit lefty response would be to institute a progressive tax to fund better public transport. More opportunity to socialise, no greater number of drunk drivers and more jobs.
They’re not asking for a pass from the rules. They’re asking for the rules to be changed to be in line with common sense. They’re not asking for free transport from society either (although I think there would be an argument for providing transport under the NHS actually, for the most isolated farmers anyway).
This is not hedonistic drunken fun. This is slightly tipsy socialising with friends for desperately isolated, hard working, decent people.
At least for those values of “great fun” which include running over a pedestrian or mowing down a bicyclist. You see, in this part of the world, roads are not only used by cars. Quite a few people here use their feet or are on bikes, and as such they’re at more than a slight disadvantage if they’re hit by a one-and-a-half ton contraption made from scrap iron, plastic, rubber and gasoline.
I could hardly care less if a drunk driver veered off the road, through a tree and into a river all by himself. Sow, reap and all that. My problem with drunk drivers - including those who believe that they “at .10BAC could pass any reasonable standardized driving test” - is that they endanger other people by willfully and deliberately impairing their reaction speed, attention and coordination before they get behind the wheel. That kind of egotism makes me stabby.
ETA: I’ve given first aid at a traffic accident involving drunk driving. It was very much not funny. Fortunately, only the drunk driver was involved. I can pretty much guarantee that if there had been more people involved, the guy stinking of booze would have ended up at the very bottom of my personal triage list.
Bet you can’t.
I’m not sure that’s the right solution, but I do think it’s good to be thinking outside of the box, and I think the proper solution will be social, not punitive.
I think it’s silly that people are of the mindset of “oh no there are crazy evil drunk drivers killing people lock them away!” when the reality of the situation is that people like to drink and socialize, have limited resources, and need help with either transportation or lodging.
Which kind of system is the best fit and the most efficient (transport or lodging, volunteer or commercial or tax money) will depend on the particulars of the community. But it really is a community issue and not a criminal one.
Then the answer is to provide help with transportation/lodging, organize entertainment that is not centered on drinking and provide psychological support for those who get depressed at the idea of not being able to have ‘a few beers’ and then careen home on the local roads with only, um, minimal risk to themselves and others.
I’m a bit surprised that they “oh, they’ll get depressed” argument hasn’t been employed in the U.S. over bans on smoking in bars and restaurants. We have of course gotten the claim that such establishments will close wholesale due to the bans, which hasn’t happened (I haven’t seen evidence that Irish pubs are going extinct over smoking bans either).
I think we agree, other jack.
Speaking only for myself - I am not saying that I think BAL limits should be higher/lower on different roads. I am saying that questioning or changing legislation regarding alcohol and driving shouldn’t be taboo, and so on the surface, knowing nothing about the numbers involved in this case, there is nothing inherently wrong with bringing such proposals to the table.
Here in the Midwest that much will be drank before the appetizers arrive.
Drunk elderly drivers, no less. :rolleyes: