Drunk driving is bad... unless you live out in the sticks.

[silenus]

I recognize that rural Irish roads are different. I’ve driven on them. But the idea still has merit in there somewhere. Hell, IIRC it wasn’t too long ago that Texas had zero laws against open containers so long as you were on a county road instead of a state one. I have memories of bombing around the countryside with my cousins in full sight of everybody while holding “roadies” of cheap beer.

One size fits all laws are often stupid.

[SanVito]

@DoctorJ

It makes sense to me that the legal limits shouldn’t necessarily be the same if you’re driving through a major city or on a congested highway as they are on an isolated rural road.

You know, you’re right, maybe they should lower the limit in rural areas considering, if Irish roads are anything like British roads, which they aren’t far off, fatal and serious road accident rates are considerably higher in rural areas than in urban areas or on motorways (highways).

Fact is, people drive more recklessly and at higher speeds on rural roads already.

[Fuji]

@bienville

… I say that only because I hope it will inspire Fuji to post more photos of the beautiful Irish countryside with its charming rural raodways.

Done.

However, although the roads are narrower and poorly lit, you’d be more likely to not actually encounter any other drivers than if you were on an American road.

You are correct, I think. However, I tend to think that these factors somewhat balance against each other. As such, if the BAL limit is X% in the city, I see no reason it shouldn’t also be X% in the country.

[Clothahump]

@Darth_Panda

I wouldn’t call two or three drinks “hammered.”

I would. It’s enough to seriously affect judgement and reaction time, and make the driver a serious hazard.

[bienville]

@Fuji

Done.

Tanks!

[Fuji]

@Simple_Linctus

First of all, if people aren’t aware, this has no chance whatsoever of becoming law, and these people have no power whatsoever, they are basically the super plebs of the political system (not that I know that much about the Irish one). Also apparently the ring leader is a bit of an attention whore, an Irish person tells me. Was making noise about a rubbish tip or something a few months ago.

Agreed.

Secondly - I actually think he may have a not-ridiculous point. The key to this is that bit of Ireland really is super rural, and I don’t think it’s unreasaonble to think there’s a good argument for some of those farmers that literally the only time they get out is to the pub twice a week, driving ten or twenty miles along a single track road with no one else on it (apart from other drink drivers). This is not equivilant to drink driving in a city or a fast trunk road.

Strongly disagree.

Because of the nature of the historical development of the Irish road system, and also due to the extremely low population density (the lowest in Western Europe), commuter trips tend to make much greater usage of rural roads than is commonly the case in the rest of Europe (or East Coast USA, for that matter).

By way of example, here is a map which indicates the route I took to work five days a week, for two years. As you can see, the bulk of the journey covers Local Roads, with a speed limit of 80 km/h (approx. 50 mph). And I was far from the only one - many days I encountered large industrial/commercial vehicles (even the occasional tractor/semi-trailer). This is SOP in West Cork (similar in geography to Kerry).

I also have to say I really resent this anti-alcohol culture that is creeping in everywhere at the moment - sure, it kills you, but you have great fun along the way. And what these guys are proposing is only fairly sensible drinking, I promise you most of these guys could drive well enough after six pints or similar, which is techincally a lot of alochol but nothing to people who drink properly - and again, even if they can’t, there’s nothing to hit.

I am certainly not anti-alcohol. I love having pints in the pub or just getting hammered at home. However, give me a fucking break with the “drive well enough after six pints” shit. You’re not fighting ignorance here - you’re spreading it.

[Darth_Panda]

@Clothahump

I would. It’s enough to seriously affect judgement and reaction time, and make the driver a serious hazard.

It’s below the legal limit for everyone who weighs over 160 lbs. in NC (where I live) and many other states, even if consumed within one hour.

How much can you drink and be legal in Missouri | DWI Lawyer

http://www.hsrc.unc.edu/safety_info/alcohol/blood_alcohol_concentration.cfm

[Fuji]

@Norse

At least for those values of “great fun” which include running over a pedestrian or mowing down a bicyclist. You see, in this part of the world, roads are not only used by cars. Quite a few people here use their feet or are on bikes, and as such they’re at more than a slight disadvantage if they’re hit by a one-and-a-half ton contraption made from scrap iron, plastic, rubber and gasoline.

Yes, exactly. You also forgot road bowling, in which groups of (not necessarily sober) people congregate and play a fucking game in the middle of the goddamned road. I certainly had a “WTF?!” moment the first time I encountered this phenomenon.

The Road Safety Authority here has started a major campaign to highlight the danger of drunken pedestrians (never mind drunk drivers).

Originally Posted by RSA

“Two thirds of pedestrians killed on Irish roads for which BAC level information is available had consumed alcohol and of these 50% were 3 times over the legal driving limit.”

(emphasis added)

[Fuji]

@jackdavinci

“oh no there are crazy evil drunk drivers killing people lock them away!”… it really is a community issue and not a criminal one.

You’re right. I just checked Snopes; this whole “drunk driving kills” shtick is just an urban legend.

:rolleyes:

[Doughbag]

@Darth_Panda

I wouldn’t call two or three drinks “hammered.”

You wouldn’t want to sit in my passenger seat, after I had 3 beers… and doing 100km/h on a windy road just wide enough to fit a single car and being slighly hammered.
Roads like this or this … at night in the dark with avisability of 20m-30m

[Darth_Panda]

@Doughbag

You wouldn’t want to sit in my passenger seat, after I had 3 beers… and doing 100km/h on a windy road just wide enough to fit a single car and being slighly hammered.
Roads like this or this … at night in the dark with avisability of 20m-30m

I would just like to mention that I never said people should ignore common sense when it comes to driving, only that the word “hammered” is usually used to mean something other than 2 or 3 drinks.

I got hammered last night night, it was totally insane - I must have had 2 Bud Lights. Hell, it might might have even been three. Hammered I tell you.

Anyone who said that would be classified as weird in my book.

[Snarky_Kong]

@Doughbag

You wouldn’t want to sit in my passenger seat, after I had 3 beers… and doing 100km/h on a windy road just wide enough to fit a single car and being slighly hammered.
Roads like this or this … at night in the dark with avisability of 20m-30m

What does slightly hammered mean?

[silenus]

Lightly malleted.

[Norse]

@Fuji

You also forgot road bowling

Oh. My. :eek:

And me thinking people are crazy enough here on the Northern side of the North sea. But this I haven’t ever heard of before.

@Fuji

[QUOTE=RSA]
“Two thirds of pedestrians killed on Irish roads for which BAC level information is available had consumed alcohol and of these 50% were 3 times over the legal driving limit.”

(emphasis added)

[/QUOTE]

The logical conclusion to that would of course be that instead of increasing the legal limits for driving home after the pubs close, those limits should be lowered. Since you need every gram of reaction speed, attention and coordination to avoid running over the drunk idiots who are perfectly within the limits of the law as they veer halfway across the road in the dark.

The only type of people along the road who make more paranoid than drunks are small children. Both categories are 100% unpredictable.

[Sailboat]

@Shakes

I’m OK with this.

I’m quite confident that at .10BAC I could pass any reasonable standardize driving test that would prove I’m not a danger to anyone.

Sure, my reaction times have slowed down but not to the point where they are a danger.

Excellent username/post combo.

[Peremensoe]

@Fuji

Ya see, things are a little bit different here in Ireland than the good ol’ USA, especially in rural areas. Shoulders, road markings, visibility more than 10m, road width >2 passenger cars, ice/snow removal: these are all elements that are commonly missing from Irish country roads. Here’s a pic that illustrates a little of what I’m talking about. I live one county over from Kerry, and here there are usually stone hedges about 5-6 feet high that directly abut the winding roads. Another site has tourists’ impressions of driving here. (One of the posters there mentions, “an estimated 100,000 drivers on the road who have NEVER passed a driving test,” which accords with what I was told by locals when I got here: until about 10 years ago, you didn’t even have to take a test to obtain a licence!)

What I’m getting at is that the roads here are already rather dangerous under normal conditions (in the US, I might’ve looked at the radio for 2-3 seconds switching stations; here, I don’t dare take more than 0.5 secs, frequently 0.0 seconds [I don’t look at the radio at all]). As such, it is obscene to countenance a relaxation of DUI laws here.

And yet, rates of traffic-related deaths in the United States are much higher than in Ireland, related to either population or passenger-miles.

Impressions of tourists notwithstanding, I see no empirical reason to think that narrow roads that require drivers to go slower and pay more attention are more dangerous.

[Fuji]

@Peremensoe

And yet, rates of traffic-related deaths in the United States are much higher than in Ireland, related to either population or passenger-miles.

Impressions of tourists notwithstanding, I see no empirical reason to think that narrow roads that require drivers to go slower and pay more attention are more dangerous.

I’m not a tourist, you muppet. Doughbag, who posted on the last page, is also not a tourist. As people who actually, you know, live and drive here, you might accord our experiences a little more weight.

But you only want “empirical reasons”? Okey dokey. Here you go:

From the RSA is this PDF which shows (p. 10) that, from 1990-2000, the VAST (60-70%) majority of fatal accidents were in rural areas as opposed to the cities.

This site notes that:

“According to RSA figures, Ireland’s major cities (Dublin, Cork & Limerick) had high death rates in 2009 but these cities and counties are under-represented as a ratio to the general population compared to the counties with predominantly rural counties. For example, Dublin, with a population of nearly 1.2 million according to the last census, recorded 29 road deaths in 2009. Yet Donegal, an area notorious for road fatalities, recorded 14 road deaths in 2009 with a population of less than 200,000. County Mayo, also with a population of less than 200,000, recorded ten road fatalities. Other blackspots among Ireland’s rural counties included Co. Kerry which claimed 13 people on their roads in 2009 while roads in Co. Meath and Co. Tipperary claimed 12 and 13 lives respectively.”

[Fuji]

@Norse

The logical conclusion to that would of course be that instead of increasing the legal limits for driving home after the pubs close, those limits should be lowered. Since you need every gram of reaction speed, attention and coordination to avoid running over the drunk idiots who are perfectly within the limits of the law as they veer halfway across the road in the dark.

I heartily concur. This will never happen, but it’s certainly more rational than proposals to raise the limit. That is, if you are actually trying to reduce traffic fatalities. (Ireland has made major efforts over the past 10 years to improve road safety - the payoff has been that 2012 was the safest year on record.)

[Fuji]

@Darth_Panda

I would just like to mention that I never said people should ignore common sense when it comes to driving, only that the word “hammered” is usually used to mean something other than 2 or 3 drinks.

Anyone who said that would be classified as weird in my book.

Disclosure: I know Doughbag IRL.

He drinks maybe a couple times per year. I have seen him literally stumbling after three girly drinks (Smirnoff Ice or some such crap). Trust me - you wouldn’t want him to get behind the wheel after one drink, let alone three. And - no offense, Doughbag - I am skeptical that his constitution is noteworthy or exceptional in this regard.

[Cheshire_Human]

@bienville

Tanks!

No, that would be this picture.