I kind of an either/or guy. Sometimes I want dubs, sometimes I want subs.
I will say this. I put the DVD of Orphen: The Spell of the Dragon a couple of weeks ago and hit play. I’ll just start with with whatever the setup is (sub/dub). It started out dub, and after a couple of minutes I decided to switch to sub. Didn’t particularly care for the Japanese voices (could be original character association) so I switched back. But I didn’t turn off the subtitle. It had both dub AND sub going. I found that while the sub is a better literal translation, the dub actually conveyed the humor, jokes, and meaning better to an American audience. I ended up watching the rest of the show dubbed and turned off the subtitles.
Don’t know about anime, but I view a lot of regular movies dubbed into German and the quality isn’t bad IMO (I also view movies in English from DVD and in my favorite cinema’s weekend late showing, so I can compare).
Perhaps the average quality might be somewhat better because dubbing is so mainstream here and a serious business (the dubbing voice actors are often also noted screen actors).
Anyway I’d have to make a conscious effort to notice whether a movie is original-language or dubbed (You cannot rely on the movie’s origin there; German movies with aspirations to the US market are often made in English and dubbed into German nowadays).
Sub camper checking in. Discussion on why dubs are necessary/more practical can be found in this recent thread.
Personally, I think the advent of DVD and its capacity for multiple language tracks and subtitling options has largely rendered the whole subs vs. dubs debate moot. Thank goodness we’re out of the bad old days when official distribution companies chose to release only lousily dubbed English tapes or offered subbed tapes for $10 more than the dubs. Just as long as subs are provided and I don’t have to pay more for them, I’m happy. The trend towards better quality English dub jobs also makes me happy. I just like seeing my favorite shows treated with respect.
Now that anime is a part of mainstream American pop culture, why aren’t first-rate voice actors being used? If a particular title is being brought over with the intent of making it the Next Big Thing a la Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh for broadcast on KidsWB or FoxKids, couldn’t the distributors spring for Maurice LaMarche or Alyson Court? Obviously they’re going to merchandise the hell out of these series. You’d think they could afford them. Do “star” voice actors generally avoid dubbing for anime? Or do the production houses prefer to build and utilize their own (cheaper) stables of talent?
It is absolutely true that in Japan, American cartoons are dubbed into Japanese. No surprise there. However, they pull from the same talent pool that feeds domestic shows. Is it unreasonable for American fans to ask for the same?
What you said. I’m only half-fluent in Japanese, but I know bad acting in that language when I hear it. Case in point: Cutie Suzuki in Iczer-3. She’s a wrestler, not an actor, and it shows in her choppy monotone. There is a color, a flow to natural speech and thus good or at least competent voice acting and it isn’t too difficult to pick up on it. Me, I’d rather have emotion and variation in foreign dialogue than recognizably mediocre acting in my native language.
Whoa. And here I felt this was a sterling example of a dub done right! They avoided the sing-songy robot style that plagues many TV dubs and cast voices that matched the character designs…
Geeze, smiling bandit. No one’s attacking you! So far the complaints have been about crap acting and dialogue changes. If you want to lash out at pro-subbers, how about starting a pit thread? Not that the whole subs vs. dubs smackdown hasn’t been played out a thousand million times before on other anime boards and Usenet, but maybe Dopers can put an entertaining spin on it.
[hijack]
smiling bandit, I don’t disagree that there are bad Japanese actors. Every country must have its Keanu Reeves, right? Do you think you can give us a few examples? Are there any seiyuu commonly cited in the American fan community as being bad? I’ve named Cutie Suzuki and, after seeing one episode of Akazukin Cha-Cha, I tentatively nominate Shingo Katori for the same reasons. He’s actually an idol, though. Hmmm… In the spirit of goodwill, I’ll toss out ::dons flak jacket:: Kaneto Shiozawa (D from Vampire Hunter D, Goemon from Lupin III: The Fuuma Conspiracy, etc.). He specialized in beautiful men and was tremendously popular up to his premature death in 2000, but he always struck me as mumbly and numb.
[/hijack]
On the other hand, I can’t keep count of Japanese actors who have made me fall on my butt laughing from the sheer power of their delivery alone. Akira Kamiya as City Hunter and Shutaro Mendo, Kappei Yamaguchi as Ranma and Wan Dabada, Takehito Koyasu as Bad Mint, Shigeru Chiba as Megane, Tomokazu Seki (the GGun comedy CD), Machiko Washio and her manly voice… Even in the AnimEigo subs where they had to add footnotes to explain the untranslatable jokes, I found myself laughing just at the way the actors said things.
Another reason why I prefer subs is that I get to learn Japanese. I’m amazed at what I can now pick up on the unsubbed animes that they sometimes show here on the international channel.
Well, I definitely prefer subtitling over dubbing, but I occasionally like to compare them, so I like the dvd versions. (Not that this should be a huge surprise, since Merla and I watch the same tapes/dvds; we’re currently working on Cowboy Bebop). I’d thought it sounded like the voice actors were just reading a script without really reacting, but I didn’t know they weren’t always even recorded at the same time as the other actors!
One rare example of dubbing that actually works is the Japanese cooking show Iron Chef. All of the “contestants” and announcers are dubbed with perfect, non-accented American voices (umm…that seems to be very badly worded but I hope you know what I mean) – but since the announcers rarely appear onscreen, it doesn’t interfere with the flow of the show. The main exception is “Chairman Kaga” (the “host” of the show) whose voice is NOT dubbed, but subtitled instead. (I’ve heard they did try and dub his voice at first, but it turned out awful…he has a very distinctive and unique speaking style.) So you’ve got this odd mixture of dubbing, subtitles, and a WWF-style cooking competition, which obviously adds up to a HUGE amount of the show’s appeal.
Other than that, I’m solidly in the “Dubbing Is Evil” camp. Especially with foreign live-action movies (anime isn’t so bad, IMO.) Even if the subtitles aren’t a 100% translation, you get a better sense of the emotions and “unspoken” words from hearing the actors speak in their native tongues. Plus, you also learn a lot of new swear words.
Sorry, I didn’t really think before I posted this thread, or I would have realized what a controversy it would bring up.
And, to other confusion, I should have been more specific. I mainly meant that things from other countries, particularly Japan when they are dubbed into English are generally crappy. Not English into other languages, since I have never heard any of that.
But I agree that the worst part of dubbing is the loss of depth in character voices.
Hey, Merla. Please don’t feel bad. The whole subs v. dubs thing is not and should not inherently be a trainwreck topic or some kind of character litmus test.
Both formats have their pros and cons as posted here and IMO (which very well could be wrong) people enter these little clashes already having agreed to disagree. We’re like sports fans trash talking the enemy
In Australia we have a channel called SBS (special broadcasting service) which basically airs programs two or three people watch and is responsible for dishing a good anime series every so often.
All of it is dubbed to english, and this is generally not a problem for me because most anime actors do not look asian, so asian voices are not required for realism. The two series’ to air- Evangelion and Bubblegum Crisis have excellent voice acting and i’ve found the dubbed versions to be far more enjoyable than the subbed for this reason.
An example of english dubbing being superior to the original japanese is clear in DBZ. Goku, the main character, sounds like a girl in the japanese version (not surprising because it’s by a woman) but sounds great in the english Funimation version.
Granted there are umpteen poorly dubbed animes out there, but the good ones like Evangelion are usually dubbed well due to their quality.
Speaking of dubbing, why has no-one mentioned Monkey Magic? The english dubbing is largely responisible for its cult following in the Western world.
Okay, a quick disclaimer. I watch almost everything in its original language, whether it be anime, Das Boot, Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, Amelie, or just about anything else. I wouldn’t say that dubbing is evil, as I’ve heard several good ones and it even sometimes has camp value (City Hunter is a good example), but I just prefer subtitles.
Anyway, some of the information I’m about to post I’ve either learned from Anime Prime or Anime on DVD. (Jim Lazar can be a little militant in his no-editing stance, but his page is helpful, and Chris Beveridge runs about the best anime community page out there, in my opinion, although Anime Jump is pretty good as well.)
For what it’s worth, Amelia is done by Veronica Taylor, who also does Ash in Pokemon.
The dub, however, was toned down to some degree, especially in the spell for Dragon Slave (something about a possible television deal that didn’t happen.) Honestly, I hate changes like that.
**
Haven’t seen it, can’t comment.
**
Honestly, once again I preferred the subtitles. Partially because of Excel making really weird, pretty much untranslatable puns all the time, and partially because I just can’t listen to someone that hyper all the time in English. The speed of Excel Saga reminds me a lot of Elf Princess Rane, which is actually a dub I rather like. Excel Saga has a good dub overall, just not one I personally care for.
**
I admit, it’s a good dub. I still find myself watching in subtitles, though.
**
Haven’t seen it, and, to be honest, don’t have any real intention of doing so.
Anyway, maybe I’ll add a few more and address what I remember from earlier.
Sorcerous Stabber Orphen: Major, major dub changes. Anime Jump has an editorial giving examples. Plus, they cut all the spell incantations out of the dub, which I actually like. The cast did a pretty good job; I lay all the blame for this one squarely at the feet of the ADR director Stephen Foster. I don’t know why ADV keeps letting him do these things. Once again, apparently the original reason was hope for a television deal.
Escaflowne (both series and movie): Actually, I haven’t seen the dub of the movie, but the series dub isn’t bad. The way Dilandau was done seems kinda off, especially when you compare it to the original Japanese, but it’s Hitomi that almost forces me to listen to the original track. Not the VA’s fault, in this case, Hitomi is supposed to be the way she’s played, but I don’t like listening to whiny teenage girls in real life, and I really don’t like listening to them in a TV show. Hitomi is just as bad about whining in the original, but having to read the subtitles gives me an extra layer of distance, which makes her far less annoying.
Card Captor Sakura: Actually, I’m not quite sure this is fair to bring up, as Nelvana did a total hack job on the show. However, I would stay far, far away from the dub, as it’s only available in the hack job form.
His and Her Circumstances: TRSI went all out on this disc. I have never seen a series manufactured so carefully to please both subtitle and dubbed fans. Once again, I mainly watch the subtitle, but that’s out of overall preference for subtitles, not because it’s a bad dub.
Anyway, it’s generally fair to say that you’re not wrong for liking one over the other. Some people want a more accessible version, others, like myself, prefer one that is as close to (no overlays, hard subs, etc.) the original presentation as possible.
I agree - ironically, I could read the text faster than I could make it out by listernning to the English. But man that was good dub when I could understand what was going on.
I’ve been thinking about His and Her Circumstances, and from what I saw of Risky Safety, it sounds good, too.
Subs are the norm in Finland, and thank God for that. Only children’s cartoons are dubbed, which has resulted to some rather hilarious clips collected on a fewwebsites. Particularily illuminating is the comparison between Agapio Racing Team’s dubs of joy,sadness and terror.
I like some dubs more than others. I don’t think dubbing has to be bad, but it often is. The dub of Houshin Engi (released in North America as Soul Hunter) was better than the original Japanese, I thought.
But for some reason I can’t stand Slayers dubbed, even though the dub seems fairly popular. For one thing, the Xelloss voice drives me crazy. And I don’t like the “funny” added dialogue that I’ve sometimes noted…
Sorry, but you are wrong. This would probably come as a big surprise to a lot of Western anime fans, but with a few notable exceptions even in Japan anime is generally perceived as children’s fare. As best as I can tell, virtually no one over the age of about six in Japan watches Pokemon. The only Japanese teens or adults I know of who’ve ever watched the show are ones who babysit small children. All were surprised and amused to hear that some American college students are fans.
In re dubbing, it’s been a long time since I was a heavy anime watcher (I have an old ex-girlfriend who had a massive anime collection), but I hear dub quality has improved a lot over the past few years. It could hardly go downhill from the state it was in back in the mid-90s. There seemed to be one man and one woman doing all the voices in a series, and they were never up to the challenge of providing unique and entertaining voices to that many characters. Or even one character. The heroines in particular tended to have intensely irritating, squeaky, sing-song voices. I often got the feeling they weren’t using real actors at all, but people who worked in shipping or something. But as anime becomes increasingly mainstream in the US I think you can expect to see (or hear) a higher grade of vocal talent.
I’ve seen a couple of good dubbed anime, but not many. Here is Greenwood is the only completely solid one I know of.
Most dub-actors sound like they’re honing their skills delivering lines in porn, where the expectations are much higher :rolleyes:
Censorship tends to be worse in dubs. Both Sailor Moon and Revolutionary Girl Utena took “controversial” material out of the dub, but not out of the subtitled version. And sometimes that’s the fault of the actors, not the writers. Spike Spencer refused to have his character say he “loved” another man in Evangelion, so the line was changed.
Incidentally, there are some very good fansubs out there, often better than the official version when it’s later released. I’ve seen both the official sub and the fansub for Fushigi Yuugi and Yami no Matsuei, and the fans were better at it in both cases.
From the IMDB trivia section. The movie was filmed silently with the German and English dialogue both being added later. Both versions were done by the same cast. That’s originally English to me.
So far the complaints have been about crap acting and dialogue changes. If you want to lash out at pro-subbers, how about starting a pit thread? Not that the whole subs vs. dubs smackdown hasn’t been played out a thousand million times before on other anime boards and Usenet, but maybe Dopers can put an entertaining spin on it.
