They’re huge, awesome, and beautiful. You have to ask?
We have an outreach program, I’d be happy to sponsor you.
Are there any Doper up on the tax code enough to say whether this could actually lead to yanking the church’s tax exempt status? It sure seems like it to me, but I just learned to itemize last year.
I recall some pundits from the right screaming bloody murder when some Black churches invited Kerry to their services, and danced upon the line which defines endorsement and preaching. It was fuzzy, but I agreed with them in that it’s a line that should be well defined. If you cross it, you lose tax exempt status. At least those folks danced close enough to the line to keep it fuzzy.
I wonder if this pastor is even able to see the line in his rear view mirror, he’s crossed it so far.
Here’s some comments I’m finding on Christian message boards. No link, to prevent forunm invasions.
The cleansing has begin, folks. 
I’m saddened that ‘secular humanists’ are opposed to religious freedom.
Like the pastor for his actions or not, he was excercising his right to his religious freedom.
Anyone that thinks that religious organizations are not political is a fool. A religious organization is by DEFINITION political. If it doesn’t have political power, it’s a cult, or a club.
The more I read these debates the more convinced I am that the average secular humanist is completely oblivious as to what religion is actually all about. There is nothing to stop the democrats of East Wayneville NC from starting their own church somewhere else.
I don’t know what kind of naivete relegates a church to merely the realm of the theoretical and thinks that it isn’t ALL about politics. This idea of seperation of Church and State is paradoxical at best in a government that is “by the people and for the people”. Our country was founded by protestants who wanted a different political system. To suddenly wake up in 2005 and realize “holy shit religious organizations are political!” is ignorant of every step along the way through our history as a country.
So maybe they SHOULD lose their tax exempt status, and that’s fine, but an organization religious or not has every right to define it’s membership the way it wants to. You can’t force people to be a community.
Hell if you all really care that much, why not organize a visitation of that church with busloads of democrats. Hell, bring a preacher that wants to preach Jesus’ words about tolerating EVERYONE in society, and talk about Jesus tossing merchants from the temple.
Freedom of religion is of paramount importance. IMO
Erek
Oh yeah, and I am glad to see that a lot of you crawled out of your caves suddenly to realize that the christian right is a political entity. If only you’d noticed it when you were a child and they were affecting policy then too.
Erek
Really. Sorta like Kosovo? How soon do they break out the pickups and rifles and start huntin’ down them godless Democrats? They’s plenty of biblical backing for killin’ the unbelievers, ain’t they? :rolleyes:
Well, without thinking too hard or knowing the area (perhaps **LHD **would care to enlighten me) I can come up with a few reasons:
Money (or lack thereof)
Available building space
Lack of an actual pastor
The local contractors might support the pastor
Will power
Number of followers (A person cannot found a church alone. Hell, even Jesus had all those apostles and disciples)
Desire for revenge against intolerant pastor
Oh, and I guess all those black people should have stuck with their own schools and churches too, huh? :rolleyes: (I don’t like segregation analogies as a rule, but so be it)
As crazy as my church is, there’s always a crazier one out there.
My, what a large strawman you have!
Here’s a hint: yes, Pastor Chandler has a right to religious freedom. He even gets to be an inconsiderate, arrogant, ham-handed, exclusionary asshole. He does not get the right not to be called an asshole in the process.
And if you tell me I’m opposed to religious freedom again I’m afraid I may have to get cross.
You’re the one who doesn’t have a fucking clue what religion is actually about. Religion is about people’s relationship to God. Religion is about “Love thy neighbor as thyself.” Religion is about comforting the bereved, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked and doing good works. Religion is about giving meaning to a meaningless world. Religon is not about filibusters, mayoral races, or who you voted for in the last election. Separation of church and state is good for both church and state–cross pollination diminishes both.
I think the church kicking out democrats is a stupid thing to do, but I support their right to do it. That said, that has got to be THE dumbest fucking analogy I have ever heard. Political party association is just not comparable with race in any way, shape or form. One is determined at conception, and the other is a consciously chosen decision to advance a particular political platform.
Thank you, please try again.
Yeah, looking back at it, that was a dumb analogy. My apologies. :o
Actually, when I think about it, a religious institution does have the right to bar certain members from its congregation. However, this in not the decision of a religion. These are the actions of one pastor. If this were the Catholic Church, the Vatican could just tell its underlings to shut the fuck up, but I don’t know how the Baptist Church works. Personally, I hope other pastors realize this guy’s a fucktard instead of some sort of a hero.
While simultaneously denying it to people in the “wrong party”.
I don’t know what kind of naivete relegates a church to merely the realm of the theoretical and thinks that it isn’t ALL about politics. This idea of seperation of Church and State is paradoxical at best in a government that is “by the people and for the people”… So maybe they SHOULD lose their tax exempt status, and that’s fine, …
[/QUOTE]
I see what you’re saying, but it (to me) conflicts with what was said in the following quote…
“Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and to God the things that are God’s.”
That sentence could be seen as an endorsement of the church/state separation.
Obey the church laws, but also obey “Caesar’s” laws, one of which is freedom to make our own choices.
It could also be seen as a condemnation of the tax breaks many churches enjoy (telling the people to just pay the tax and be done with it).
Unfortunately, this one pastor wants it all his way. I bet if some “higher up” told him how to vote and what party to register with, he’d go ballistic.
[Pointing at random suspected Democrats]Look out! It’s comin’ right at us! BLAM 
What religious belief was he exercising?
Sounds to me like it was the Democrats who had their religious freedom violated – the freedom to worship in the church of their choice.
9 were booted…40 left at last count.
Seems to me the pastor screwed up.
Can pastors collect unemployment?
Wonder how many parishoners he has left? Can’t have been that big a church to start with.
Kudos to the forty people who walked out on the putz at the pulpit. If you focus on them and not the asshole preacher, this story is downright heartwarming.
I know where one gets a subpoena, but which governmental entity is responsible for issuing cans of whup-ass?
Wherever it comes from, I hope some kind of action is taken soon. This country is getting ridiculous with its politicalization of religion (or is it the fundamentalizing of government?).
You’re absolutely right, my freedom is being violated. Tomorrow, I am going to go into a mosque and start handing out holy communion!
Then next week, I am going to the headquarters of Price Waterhouse to hold mass.
After that I am gonna go into the trading floor on Wall Street, and have a bris.
After all, we wouldn’t want to limit my ability to worship in the church of my choice right?
If your idea of religious freedom hinges upon which building to do it in, you’ve got some idolatry reconciliation issues to work out. The rest of the congregation clearly supported their pastor.
Vibrotronica
Religion is NOT about loving thy neighbor or any of that crap, and when it is, people pick and choose their neighbors on a pretty regular basis. The Church of Satan
has no doctrinal belief relating to the love of one’s neighbor. Interesting note, the Church of Satan does not enjoy tax exempt status, and is working to remove it from all other churches as well.
Erek
You do realize how stupid that analogy is, don’t you?
People, Democrats, normally go to a Christian church to practice Christianity. They’ve been denied that.
Do you normally cut up a ton of foreskins at brokerage houses? Are you being denied something you normally do?
If so, I want to party with you, man.