Yes, just get something. Just get the ball rolling. It’s a lot easier to understand all this jargon (“throat hit”, “vapor production”, etc) if you’ve tried two and have something to compare.
I don’t run out. I work really hard not to run out. That’s why I’ve got two different brands available at two different stores, as well as a stock of ejuice should I need to refill a used cart because I’m out and can’t get more.
But yes, some people do use an ecig sometimes and still smoke sometimes. My SO does this, although I’ve noticed he’s gone from 70% ecig down to about 20% ecig, which is not what I’d hoped for. Not what he’d hoped for, either, and he says he’s going to try to do more ecig and less tobacco, but he’s literally been smoking longer than I’ve been alive, so I get that the addiction is strong with this one…
If nothing else, the ecig is great for those times when you don’t want to smell like residual smoke (like at work, perhaps, or meeting the inlaws) or those times when you can’t smoke (in public buildings) - although that last part is controversial.
Technically speaking, in most places you can’t smoke, the laws don’t exclude ecigs. Some vapers are kind of jerks when told they can’t vape indoors, however. Me, I see the concern - if a smoker sees me vaping and thinks he can therefore light up, I’ve created a problem for security. That’s when I like the Blu - it’s cigarette shaped, but it’s black with a blue led light up tip, so it’s more obvious that it isn’t an actual cigarette. It tends to elicit questions from managers and security people rather than challenges. Then I can do some public education, and often they will then let me vape indoors. If I have a Mistic (white with a brown cart that looks like a cigarette with a red LED tip) that looks very much like a cigarette being smoked, I generally just take it outside to the Smoker’s Exile so as to avoid a scene. And then I get to show it off to the smokers. There I’ve generated quite a bit of interest and inspired a few smokers to switch, too!
I’m interested in what ecigs will cost you, in that case. If I refill with eliquid, I get it down to about USD$1 per cartridge. So if the prices are the same for you, you may not save a whole lot of money.
But there are still those not-smelling-like-an-ashtray and not-hacking-up-a-lung thing as benefits for you.
Certain drugs have been in the pharmocopaeia long enugh that their efficacy and safety is so well established the FDA doesn’t require testing at that level. It only requires tests to prove a new use. Both nicotine and propylene glycol meet these standards. And since nicotine is manufactured almost exclusively from the tobacco plant, the current supply and manufacturing process would be sufficient, especially since eCig users would be almost exclusively former smokers. The demand for nicotine would stay the same or decrease, so the supply would be sufficient.
The only question eCig manufacturers have to answer is “do eCigs work as a smoking cessation aid?”. Until they can answer that with a yes, the FDA will not allow them to claim it as a use for their product. Currently, eCigs are sold as a way to allow you to smoke without offending your neighbors. The manufacturers will pay for the testing, since they have a strong incentive to make the claim that eCigs will help you quit smoking.
The flavorings are based on those already approved for use in foods on the basis that if you can eat it without harm, you should be able tinhale it without harm. Checking the eCig forums, though, there are caveats and warnings. Interestingly enough, the FDA is a lot looser wtth flavorings than with nicotine.
Unless you can cite FDA regs to support your position, I’ll remain skeptical that things would not be nearly as simple and straight forward as you paint them. For example I would note that you seem to have avoided the issue of what if any hoops the companies selling the current OTC nicotine products had to jump through.
Also, you make the unfounded assumption that something that can be safely consumed orally can also be safely inhaled. I suspect it wouldn’t be too difficult to come up with a few counterexamples, if not substances that are harmful per se then certainly things that would serve to promote disease.
edit: I couldn’t find a cite, but I think most if not all nicotine is manufactured and not extracted. If you do a google search, most of the suppliers are chemical manufacturers in China.
I think many people who consider vaping share your concerns, deltasigma.
I think most smokers-turned-vapers think more along the lines of, “Could this be dangerous? Sure. Are cigarettes dangerous? Absofuckinglutely. I’d rather take the risks of “could” than “absofuckinglutely”.”
For most vapers, it’s not vaping or nothing. It’s vaping or smoking. And we *know *the risks of smoking, and there are, literally, few things on the planet more chronically-but-not-acutely hazardous to your health than smoking.
Let’s face it: if cigarettes had to pass FDA approval, they wouldn’t make it through ANY level of trials. The only reason they’re legal is because they’re so old.
And, while the FDA doesn’t consider them, actual people do consider studies done in other countries to be compelling, and the German studies have found very little risk to ecigs. Or so I’m told - I’ll be honest, I haven’t read them myself. But I do have a German raised friend who also happens to be a medical researcher, and she’s read them and assures me I’m better off vaping than smoking, and she herself has switched to an ecig. That’s not compelling to you, I know, because we’re on the internet and I could be a linguistically gifted dog. But it’s compelling enough for me.
I don’t know why people have to read into what I’m saying. Have I in any way argued against e-cigs? No I haven’t. All I’ve done is a) pointed out that the source of some of the ingredients is questionable, b) the safety of those ingredients may be questionable for long term use and c) tried to shed some light on why the FDA isn’t tripping over itself to approve them as a smoking cessation devise.
But for reasons known only to yourselves you want to put words in my mouth. If you’re not going to at least buy me dinner first, then cut that shit out if you please.
Certainly inhaling even Chinese manufactured nicotine is probably going to be better for you than smoking benzene and ammonia laden tobacco as long as you’re doing it with the goal of quitting all together. Perhaps even substituting one habit for the other is a better idea. However at that point I think you should seriously inquire into the quality of the product you’re consuming. I offered the possibility of an absolutely pure product from a UK source up thread and did one person even inquire about it? No. That’s either because no one really understands the potential issues with unregulated chemicals, which nicotine is or no one cares. OK, fine. Then I don’t give a shit either. But don’t turn around and then tell me that I’m therefore against e-cigs simply because you can’t see the nuances of my argument.
I use Totally Wicked and have no complaints. I’ve also not had a cigarette since 30 June, and I feel much better.
When compared to actually smoking, there is no downside. None. Not health, not price, nothing. Plus, when you exhale it’s nothing but water vapor so it takes away virtually every objection, not that the zealots haven’t magically created more because we all know how bad water vapor inhalation is for you.
As an admission that “my friend said” is hardly ironclad evidence of anything. ETA: A pre-emptive admission, because I know the standards for evidence on this board are much greater than that.
Really, truly, honestly, I in no way meant to be offensive or pick a fight.
And, to get back to the topic at hand, I think you’re right. “That’s either because no one really understands the potential issues with unregulated chemicals, which nicotine is or no one cares.” I think, by and large, no one cares. That’s still not meant to be insulting, just an observation based on many conversations with vapers, in real life and on the internet.
Just realized something - deltasigna joined yesterday, coincidentally to plug a UK source for nicotine.
It may explain why he/she refuses to any research on anything about ecigs and chastised us about not asking about the UK source. And the griping about being banned for talking about (gasp!) Chinese nicotine.
So how about we just get this thread back on the rails. The OP was asking about reviews for different brands, I’m interested in that as well.
To get back to something I asked about earlier, I picked up a Volt started pack, I’d like to know how that stacks up against the other brands. The only one I cared for was watermelon and I just bought a refill, but also bought some empty carts so I could refill it with e-juice from other manufacturers.
I like the E-Cig itself (not that I have anything to compare it to) just didn’t care for the other flavors that came in the variety packs.
Well of course the hidden benefits of you know, not dying are quite important, but I may well have to pay duty on them when they get here, so I’ll pay what you pay in the US, plus shipping and local duties which would probably double or triple the price. If I get organized and know what I want I can get friends to bring them for me luckily they are small items. Or order direct from China.
So the liquid refills, they would fill any type of cartridge? How many times can you refill the cartridge? I noticed some of the cartridges say no nicotine … hmm.
My biggest complaint was that even the highest concentration juice didn’t have the same kick as a real cigarette. Another problem was that the small devices that have the same “footprint” we’ll call it, of a cigarette have to be refilled too often in my opinion. The same goes for the battery life.
There are units that are larger with a greater capacity both in terms of reservoir and battery life but now you’re looking at something approaching cigar size. I won’t make any recommendations for fear of being accused of shilling.
The liquid comes in a bottle with either an eyedropper or a dropper tip. It will refill any of the four I’ve tried. I haven’t tried every cartridge out there, so I’m hesitant to say any, but I think so.
If you stop vaping before your cart is dry (before it tastes burnt) you can refill it several times at least. 4 or 5 is about the max I’ve gotten before I accidentally burn it, but I’m a bit overly optimistic about how many more puffs I can get before burn. Experience is the best teacher here; I’m getting better at it. Once you burn a cart, you could still refill it, but you’re stuck with the burnt taste.
There are also techniques for “dripping” eliquid without using a cartridge at all, but I don’t know anything about that. That’s where things start to get really technical on the ecig boards and my eyes start to glaze over. You may find it more interesting, since the refill carts will be harder for you to get.
I suppose having to recharge and refill the little buggers will give you something to do other than smoking. I smoke Hillsborough which are made in Commonwealth of Dominica but with tobacco from Colombia (I think - somewhere in South America anyway) “All Leaf Natural Tobacco”. Now they pack a good punch, someone who smokes lights wouldn’t be able to handle them, they are strong. Middle tar it says. The thing is they are not the treated North American tobacco mixed with god knows what and everyone who’s switched to them has said they are much easier on the chest. Problem is as I said, they pack a punch, I would need a nice strong alternative so PLEASE link your recommendations.
