Got my mother to quit after ~100 pack-years of smoking(2+ packs per for nearly 50 years). I swear, asking her to quit was like asking her to not breathe. Well, after all those cigarettes, she was rapidly approaching that “not breathing” point, and we needed her to stop sucking in all that tar and other chemicals that were causing her COPD. Two Decembers ago, my sister and I told her (after she’d tried to light some L.E.D. candles with a Bic) that she needed to quit, and gave her the e-cig. In January, we stopped buying her cigarettes.
Worked better than I ever could have imagined. I don’t know for sure how much safer they are, but it’s almost certainly not crudding up her lungs as badly as tobacco, and we got the smoldering embers and butane lighters out of her early-stage dementia hands, so win all around. At her age and state of health, it’s all about short-term wins. If they discover something bad about e-cigs & long-term use, it will still have helped my mom’s last few years.
I’ve read the rechargeable is nothing like the Kings. Many people have complained that the rechargeable is horrible and praise the King. Just make sure you get the King and not the Onejoy…I’m told the Onejoy is a disposable version of the rechargeable.
Electronic cigarettes or PVs (personal vaporizers) aren’t for everyone. And quitting nicotine and inhaling anything other than pure mountain air is, of course, the ideal. But for someone like me, who smoked for over 40 years and tried everything to quit, they have been a miracle. I went from 3+ packs a day to zero in 5 days. And I haven’t touched a cigarette in 3.5 years. And, along the way, I dropped my nicotine intake from 24 milligrams per milliliter to 6 milligrams.
If you have propylene glycol (PG) sensitivity (some people are very allergic to it and it’s in very many products), you can get e-liquid that only has vegetable glycerin (VG) in it. When electronic cigarettes first came out, there were only a few suppliers of flavoring and they were PG-based but it is getting easier for vendors to offer VG-only juice.
The lack of combustion means the smell doesn’t linger (and it doesn’t stick to your clothes and walls like cigarette smoke does) but I can guarantee that, were you in the room with me right now, you would be able to smell my vapor. It’s a combination of Sweet Gingerbread and Peppermint and it smells delicious.
It’s not all about quitting, Personally, I smoke/use e-cigs and fully intend to keep smoking them. I am quite sure the big tobacco companies and small ones are betting half-a-farm on that.
What I particularly fear is that more and more people, children in particular–“ice cream sundae” flavor, bubblegum surprise flavor, etc.–will become addicted to nicotine.
Unlike with cigs, there is, physiologically, practically no barrier to getting to the good stuff (yes, I know there is other “good stuff” when sucking down a smoke). It’s hard to start smoking. And to continue it, again, physically.
With ecigs it’s mainlining 1-2-3. Nicotine is an extraordinary pleasurable and useful psychoactive chemical for anyone. What else can concentrate you and calm you at the same time depending in how long between replenishings in your system? That’s why (obviously) smokers put up with all that crap. Now everyone can get into it, and its better than caffeine as a drug at times and doesn’t keep you up at night.
What seems to get left out of this fear, though, is that plenty of flavors - all of them, in fact - are available in no nicotine at all. I think we should, as consumers, be encouraging our retailers to carry zero nicotine juice. Then it’s back to the consumer (as well as the retailer enforcing age restrictions)…you choose nicotine, you live with it.
Couple items. First, reviewing the citations at the bottom of the article, the fourth one has a typo:
I bolded and underlined the word: should be Smoking.
Second, purely anecdotal experience, over the weekend I was involved in a game and realized one of the participants was smoking an ecig. I was busy but did observe that I could not detect an aroma or typical secondhand smoke problems.
Third, the long term health effects of ecigs are not known, both for smokers, as well as second and third hand effects (second = other people in the room inhaling left over vapor from the vaper’s exhale, third = chemical deposit of the vapor remains on surfaces then absorbed by other people). I’m concerned that the appearance and marketing of ecigs as being safer combined with the flavorings and other enhancements will lead to new long term problems and due to increased use. It doesn’t have the offensive odor and such, so it is harder to argue against.
It’s hard to see how the long term effects could be worse or even comparable to smoking burning tobacco products. I’m sure it’s not exactly healthy, but I’ll be shocked if it’s anywhere near as harmful as smoking cigarettes, cigars or a pipe. As to the second hand effects, again it would be hard to imagine how it could be anywhere near comparable to the purported second hand effects of tobacco.
Frankly, given this alternative, I can’t see why anyone would choose to continue smoking tobacco products, especially in light of the continued animus towards smokers in public. Everything about this, to my mind, is better. It tastes better, you can get your nicotine fix if you need it, you, your car, your office and everything else smells better, and it’s almost certainly better for you than the alternative.
So dumb question: I’m a former smoker, I haven’t had so much as a drag in 7 years, I smoked for about 15 years pretty heavy; a solid pack or more a day and I mean SMOKED, didn’t set it down in the ashtray and let it burn. What I miss most is having one in my hand and puffing away while I’m at the pub with my friends; I wish I still could! I’ve been wondering if a vap cigarette that looks/feels like a real one without nicotine would cure that urge to “light up” or if it could send me back on a bad spiral to real smoking again. Also if it’s a danger to use one on occasion without nicotine; is this just a stupid thing to even consider? FWIW I didn’t have a terrible time quitting, I just miss it sometimes.
It certainly seems healthier and better all around than the real cigarrettes. There are fewer chemicals and lower doses of the ones there are. And certainly it gets rid of the tar, which is a big factor in lung disease. And certainly the odor and lingering smokey smell are gone. But that is different from saying it is just harmless water vapor.
I’m not convinced it is reasonable to be less concerned with secondhand effects. While those necessarily should be lower as well, given the reduced output of harmful stuff, that doesn’t mean it is appropriate to be smoking indoors.
Couple that with the marketing trying to push this not as an alternative to smoking or as a way to quit, but as a supplemental activity that doesn’t even require nicotine, and I see the possibility for a future look back and wonder why anyone thought this was a good idea. YMMV.
Obviously different people have different reactions. If what you are craving are the social interaction cues, the handling and mouth feel and throat hit, then you might find a version that works. It could take some trial and error. On the other hand, in some people it isn’t quite satisfying in the same way, and feeds the cravings for the real thing.
[QUOTE=Irishman]
I’m not convinced it is reasonable to be less concerned with secondhand effects. While those necessarily should be lower as well, given the reduced output of harmful stuff, that doesn’t mean it is appropriate to be smoking indoors.
[/QUOTE]
Considering that even the effects of second hand smoke being harmful from burning tobacco are not well understood and are, at any rate, at least an order of magnitude lower than the risk of simply breathing are from coal fired power plants I’m thinking that the risk is miniscule, all things considered. What could possibly be in the second hand vapor from an e-cig that could make that 2nd hand risk even measurable?
I never said it was harmless. Practically everything we do or ingest comes with some risk, and this is no exception. But compared to burning tobacco the risks are extremely small. Probably less than or on par with your risk of cancer from a grilled hotdog, though obviously that’s a WAG on my part.
[QUOTE=BoBettie]
So dumb question: I’m a former smoker, I haven’t had so much as a drag in 7 years, I smoked for about 15 years pretty heavy; a solid pack or more a day and I mean SMOKED, didn’t set it down in the ashtray and let it burn. What I miss most is having one in my hand and puffing away while I’m at the pub with my friends; I wish I still could! I’ve been wondering if a vap cigarette that looks/feels like a real one without nicotine would cure that urge to “light up” or if it could send me back on a bad spiral to real smoking again. Also if it’s a danger to use one on occasion without nicotine; is this just a stupid thing to even consider? FWIW I didn’t have a terrible time quitting, I just miss it sometimes.
[/QUOTE]
I’m in your same boat. I had quit (except for a few cigars a month on the weekends) a few years ago, and a friend of mine got me the Blu system. It was nice and I enjoyed it, but I’ve since progressed to the eGo-T system with a juice tank. Honestly, I love it. When I go to a bar or restaurant I can take it out of my shirt pocket, press a button and take a hit and no one cares. If I’m just sitting with friends I can sit and smoke the whole time, and even my anti-tobacco friends don’t even raise an eye brow or complain…even my wife doesn’t, though she certainly does when I’m smoking cigars. I’ve not felt any urge or craving to go back to regularly smoking tobacco, and I’ve even cut back on the cigars, since to me this is SO much better.
Most vapor shops allow you to change the amount of nicotine you get as well. I started out at something like 28mg, and I’m down to 6 now, and planning to get none in my next batch. I just don’t need it. It’s the physical aspects of smoking that I think I craved, and I get that now. There are tons of different flavorings that are superior to all but the best cigars, to me any way…and they certainly cost a lot less than a fine cigar (I can get juice for a few weeks on what a good cigar was costing me).
If you are considering trying it out, try one of the disposable e-cigs out there and see what you think. A good vapor system will run you maybe $50 for the system and initial juice, but it’s also going to be more vapor and more flavor than the disposable. But a disposable will tell you whether it’s something you might want to try before you make the investment if money is an issue. I bought a whole system and then turned around and bought a completely different (superior IMHO) one when I saw the drawbacks, so you might want to be a bit more wise than I was.
First off, I wonder if over time we will discover that long-term exposure to propylene glycol vapor is not healthy.
Second, ecigs still produce acetic acid, acetone, isoprene, formaldehyde, and acetaldehyde. While less than real cigarettes, it is measurable, and while the primary exposure is to the vaper, there are still amounts in the exhaled air.
Third, ecigs are still often a nicotine delivery system, with nicotine present in the exhaled vapor. This is the risk mentioned as third-hand risk, where the vapor condenses on surfaces and the nicotine collects where it can be absorbed through the skin, the same mechanism used in transdermal patches.
While limited exposure may not be noticable for any of these factors, I’m thinking about long term exposure through some of the areas most likely to be heavy use areas, such as bars and clubs and also homes.
How about finding out one day that your child is hooked on nicotine because his daycare worker smoked ecigs?
It has been studied for many years and is FDA approved for direct-inhalation in products such as asthma inhalers, hospital and hotel disinfecting fogs, and smoke machines in night clubs and theaters. These along with numerous other non-inhaled forms such as a food additive are considered safe by the FDA.
In fact it was discovered in the 1940’s that it is a very effective anti-bacterial and anti-influenza agent, and studies were done on the feasibility of pumping it into schools during flu season to combat influenza, a well known killer. These didn’t take shape because there was no practical way to do it but it was taken for granted it was safe to be inhaled. (in the 1940’s I think doctors were still endorsing cigarettes as healthy ways to relieve stress so YMMV on this study, but at the time at least, it was considered safe)
This page has links to most of these and other studies http://www.vapersclub.com/pg.php - It is on a vaping forum, which I try to avoid when searching for unbiased health information about vaping, but the links go to what appear to be legitimate scientific sources.
A non-trivial number of vapers have reported throat and mouth irritation from PG, however, and most e-juice is being made these days with a very low quantity of PG mixed with anywhere from 60% - 90% vegetable glycerin.
This might not be entirely accurate. I don’t know the source of your information so I can’t dispute it, but I did read that several of the most often cited studies about e-cigs used an inferior e-cig and juice from China (China actually holds the patent to the process of extracting nicotine from tobacco and other countries use synthetic nicotine that doesn’t involve tobacco and thus has zero traces of any tobacco byproducts and toxins). These studies couldn’t be considered accurate because the quality and ingredients varied from e-cig to e-cig that was used in the studies.
Again I don’t know your source, and I’m going by memory at the moment from what I’ve read without taking the time to find the cite, but what I read was that virtually 100% of nicotine is absorbed by the lungs almost instantaneously upon inhalation, and that exhaled e-vapor, or tobacco smoke for that matter, doesn’t contain any measurable amount of nicotine.
[QUOTE=Irishman]
How about finding out one day that your child is hooked on nicotine because his daycare worker smoked ecigs?
[/QUOTE]
I started smoking REAL cigarettes when I was in the Navy…before any of my kids were born. I was a smoker (cigarettes and later cigarettes and cigars, then just cigars) though all of their lives. I only quit a few years ago. During that time, my kids were exposed to second hand smoke. I now have ‘kids’ in the 20’s and 30’s…none of who smoke.
Given that, I’m not seeing how second hand smoke from a e-cig could possibly be more addicting wrt second hand nicotine than real, actual cigarettes and cigars. I’m smoking the things, and as noted I WAS a smoker, and the first hand vapor isn’t making me crave nicotine to any great extent. In fact, I’ve been able to drop down from 28mg to 6 and now to zero, with no cravings at all.
Perhaps they will, but there is simply no way it could be as dangerous as actual cigarettes…something I smoked for over 30 years. Can’t possibly be as dangerous as cigars, something I smoked for 20 years (along with the cigarettes for most of that time).
If it’s measurable, then what does the FDA say wrt potential toxic levels? I’ve seen this claim before, but until I see a scientific study showing that those elements in the vapor reach levels where health is actually impacted (as opposed to basic background levels) I’m not going to fret about it. Do you have such a study, because I’ve never seen one myself so if you do please link to it.
As I said, lots of things we ingest in various ways are potentially health affecting…it’s all about the risk factors and probability. I will be shocked if the risk factors or probability of e-cigs is much over background. Certainly it’s not going to be on par with regular burning tobacco products.
What are the potential risk factors? How much nicotine is absorbed, and what are the potential impacts of that on health? I grew up in the 60’s when a lot of people smoked REAL cigarettes in public places and I’ve never heard anyone bring up 3rd hand skin contact with nicotine on a surface as a potential issue.
I’ve never seen my vapor condense on a surface either to leave any sort of residue or film, though I suppose it’s possible. But isn’t most nicotine absorbed by the mouth and lungs?? How much would/could we really be talking about here??
My source was linked in post 15 of this thread, which is also one of the articles cited by Cecil.
From my cited article:
You’re missing the point. I am not talking about inhaled nicotine. I am talking about condensed vapor with nicotine being absorbed through the skin.
Where the hell did I say it was “as dangerous”? I never said or implied that. My point is that there is a difference between “as dangerous” and “safe”.
See above.
Different mechanism of deposit. Because the vapor is a liquid, it has the nicotine dissolved in it. That nicotine that is not absorbed in the lungs is still in the vapor, and the vapor then condenses and deposits the nicotine.
This is precisely the mechanism of transdermal patches, you know, the patches used as smoking ceasation aids. In a similar manner, it is the same concern with things like Axiron, that newfangled “low T” aid that is testorone applied to the underarm to be absorbed into the body. With those wonderful warnings about not letting women and children, especially pregnant women, touch the application areas, as they can absorb the testosterone from physical contact.
Cigarettes and cigars have the primary path as transmission through the mouth and lungs, because they are smoked. Chewing tobacco and dip are held in the mouth and absorbed through the skin. This is not a common pathway, which is why it is a newly identified concern (third-hand exposure is a very new concept). How much of a risk it really poses is not known yet, but I didn’t make this up. From that same article, this is what the authors discuss in their Introduction as part of the motivations for their study:
There are some variables in this question that are very important to consider. “e-juice” in its purest form is a mix of vegetable glycerin, propylene glycol and nicotine. The flavorings of course could add any number of other elements to the vapor and are a complete wildcard. If someone sells an ‘arsenic flavored’ e-juice that might very well add a dangerous toxin to what may otherwise be a relatively benign mix of things in the vapor. For any given test or study that has been done we seldom know where the ejuice was manufactured or purchased and what, if any, flavorings have been added to it and that is a very important question that merits study and a bit of caution on the user’s part until more is known about the ingredients of different flavors.
Second the quality and design of the e-cig can also be very important. Many, or maybe all, of the little cheap e-cigs that look like real cigarettes draw air through the battery compartment. That is a really stupid design. The user is then breathing air passed through a chamber containing a toxic lithium-ion battery, paint, wiring, glue, insulation material, etc. Higher quality e-cigs are constructed in a way so the air intake is above that entire mess, and passes only through the atomizer into the users lungs without ever entering the battery chamber.
Just like the e-juice and flavorings variables, any study done on e-cigs also needs to take this factor into account in order to get an accurate idea of the baseline toxicity of the vapor. None that I have seen so far include any information about either of these key factors.
Since this is an essentially unregulated and only slightly studied product it stands to reason there will be potential health issues that remain unknown so far and a e-cig smoker would be well advised to use some common sense and critical thinking in selecting the juice and vaporizer that seems ‘healthiest’ until more accurate and complete studies have been done.
It’s still nothing like some of the systems the new guy by me has, some of which look much like marital aids, but I did get a 900 eGo-C Twist (variable voltage). It came as part of a kit, with a purple case, “free” juice and a charger and a, I dunno…some sort of clearomizer. CE-4, maybe? Doesn’t look rebuildable, but it’ll work okay 'till it dies and…okay, I admit it, I just wanted that adorable deep purple battery! The rest of the kit was just a bonus.
But anyway, the point is…my husband likes it! Crank up the voltage, and he’s a happy puppy. I think he’s had two cigarettes tonight, which is about 10 fewer than most evenings. Can’t swear it’ll last, but at least he’ll smell better tonight!
Congrats! That looks like a great system. I have a Kgo which is an eGo knock off and is not variable voltage but it does the trick. The clearomizer can be cleaned when it clogs up and reused. I think plain water will work okay but I’ve found that ethanol works great for getting rid of the gunk. Some people use vodka to clean them. Nonetheless, get a few of the clearos…they have a tendency to go out and then you are screwed until your new ones arrive in the mail.
I’d say “don’t do it.” There are basically two components to cigarette addiction. The first is a physical addition to nicotine. For people who are only addicted to that, switching to a patch or gum will probably get them off cigarettes. For someone like me, however, the emotional addiction was far worse. Whenever I tried to quit, I’d find myself reaching for a cigarette again and again and again – sometimes more than once in a minute. And the forlorn feeling I’d get when I turned back, empty handed, and reminded myself that I had quit is what caused me to fail.
You have successfully kicked both aspect of the addiction. Why reintroduce one (even with no nicotine and a non-tobacco flavor) and hope that it won’t re-trigger your addiction. Muscle memory is a powerful force.
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For me, vaping does not imitate smoking except for the inhalation. I started with thin metal tubes, with minimal battery life, which resembled a black cigarette and could be held between my index and middle finger (all that was available back then.) Next came Chucks (beautiful, custom-decorated tubes) and eGos (which I still use as backups) along with a few other mods along the way. And I learned that what works best for me is a light-weight mod that is square-shaped. So I’m vaping a Variable Voltage Gripper which looks like one of those things you’re supposed to squeeze to strengthen your hand. It completely fills my fist and sticking out the top is a tank (tube) filled with liquid. It may not look like smoking but it satisfies the same urges.
