EACHING 'GAY ED' IN THE SCHOOLS? WHAT THE %$#@!!!!!!*

Sorry, but I forgot something in my last post.

If my kids school started a ‘Gay-Ed’, I would not have a problem with it. But I think that many, many people would. I can see people complaining that other groups are not being afforded the same type of classes. I can also imagine poeple complaining that ‘Gay-Ed’ classes could digress to ‘straight-bashing’, whatever that is supposed to be. I can see the various religeous groups frothing at the mouth that the school is ‘advocating’ homosexuality. I believe that a specific ‘Gay-Ed’ class would be doomed from the start.

That’s why I kind of proposed a general ‘Tolerance-Ed’. I can see no reason why a ‘Tolerance-Ed’ class would be a problem. Sort of a ‘Social Skills 101’.

Its quite easy to not know.:slight_smile:

Of course Gay Ed should be taught in the schools. Gay Ed has just as much right to an education as any other child. He should take his place ptoudly among Bisexual Susie, Black Phil, Asian Kim, Handicapped Sam, Short Fat Bob, and Vaguely Disturbing Pete. Why should Ed be denied an education just because he’s Gay?

Dr. J

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We don’t need special classes to encourage students to play nice at school. Most schools that I’m aware of already have policies against harassment.

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Bad parenting based on what person’s ideals? For the life of me I can’t understand why some people go ape when they hear about religious values being taught in school but have no objections to other values being taught. Don’t get the wrong idea and think that I’m all for religious values to be taught at school.

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What do you mean by tolerance? I tolerate the existance of all sorts of groups which I dislike. That doesn’t mean I like them, want to know them, or cease from making fun of them. Like I said I had no objection to schools dictating tha students must behave a certain way while on school property or at school functions. But it isn’t there place to teach a student to be tolerant.

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And I don’t see anything that will help them. I think they should concentrate on making literate graduates with a good grasp of the hard sciences before they worry about the window dressing.

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If they can think for themselves they don’t need an alternative drilled into their head. What they need to do is look at other students as human beings. But let’s face it kids can be mean and they’ll probably always find someone to pick on.

I know a lot of people have cited that homosexuals attempt suicides more then straights. Is that because people pick on them specifically or are there other reasons as well?

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It was just sarcasm and not meant to be taken as a direct example of how I viewed your post. My fault for not making that clear and I apologize.

Marc

First off, I would like to clarify, one more time, the difference between the fanciful claims made in the OP and reality.

What the NEA is proposing is a task force to find ways to address some of the problems facing GLBT youths. This may include incorporating some material on the contributions made by gay people throughout history in regular course material. It may include outreach programs for gay youth. It may include programs which work with established GLBT organizations in the communities to provide support for studnets who need it.

All of this has yet to be determined. The resolution that Focus on the Family objected to so strenuously has been withdrawn, and a task force has been appointed to study the issue.

MGibson said:

I can’t speak for anyone else, but being picked on is only one component of the challenges that I faced in high school.

When I was thirteen, I fantasized about guys. From then on through high school, the only images I had of gay people were of the “really effeminate men” stereotype played up by the media. I didn’t associate myself with this image; it wasn’t me. I didn’t have any urges to be effeminate, I just wanted to sleep with guys. The only time I heard the term “gay” used, it was as an insult. I kept quiet.

You see, that’s the real sticking point in growing up gay. You’re not visible; nobody has to know. And it seems easier to just keep your mouth shut, and seem like everybody else. Keeping my mouth shut involved hiding myself from my family; never being able to explain why I was upset, or lonely, or frightened, for fear that I’d lose the only support I had. Keeping my mouth shut involved pushing my friends away, and keeping them at a distance. Imagine lying to everyone you care about, when you’re just a kid. Imagine what that does to you.

I don’t know that it was worse than the alternative, coming out and letting everybody know who I really was, but at least it didn’t involve physical beatings.

Do you have any idea what it would have meant to me, back in high school, to know that there was one other gay person, student or teacher, who was open about who they were? Or even to know that there was a teacher or counselor around who wouldn’t condemn me outright for being gay? I didn’t know that there wasn’t, of course; most of the faculty may have been gay for all I knew. But I didn’t know, and nobody ever mentioned the subject in any positive light, and so I kept to myself.

I came within an inch of killing myself when I was sixteen.

Gay kids have problems that nobody else has. They’re not worse problems, by any means, but they are unique to being gay in this society. And unique problems call for unique solutions.

I salute the NEA for recognizing that there are kids in school struggling in the current environment, and doing something to change that. I hope their task force finds ways to reach out to these kids.

I don’t claim to know what makes someone gay. Since I think the idea that someone can be taught to be gay is ludicrous, without more information, I am going to have assume that Gay Education is about teaching understanding and tolerance. As andygirl pointed out, Gays are taught all about straight sex and precious little about gay sex, yet some of us discover that we are gay. There is a real problem with harassment and self-loathing.

We don’t know whether teaching understanding and tolerance will promote tooth decay either; further research is needed. :rolleyes:

I don’t see this as an either/or situation. Basic education needs to be addressed, but that is a different issue. Kids learn social skills in school.

MaceMan Welcome to the board. Impressive first post!

MrVisible, thanks.

super_head, Yeah, Focus on Family is pretty out there. The following speaks for itself:

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Well I didn’t really take the OP all that seriously.

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I don’t have any objections to this. And I’m sure there’s a variety of programs they might suggest that I’d have no problems with.

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Thanks, I was curious and I suspected there was more behind it then being bullied.

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And I certainly don’t want to sound like I don’t care. I recognize that different students may have different problems. I have no objections to attempts to help those students who are having difficulties.

I do have serious concerns about schools becoming propaganda mills for whatever idea is currently en vogue. I graduated high school in 1994 and during my years of public schooling I can’t recall a single class devoted to the war on drugs. But through those years we all got a one sided story about how drugs were bad in the form of assemblies with guest speakers, class visitors, and other sources.

The presentation was so one sided that no discussion was really possible. I don’t have much confidence in their tolerance programs either.

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Yes, children do learn social skills in school. I have no objection to schools setting standards of behavior for students at school. I don’t think you have to have programs promoting tolerance to do so though.

Of course I wouldn’t object to after school clubs that wanted to do those kinds of things. But I don’t really want it as a basic part of the curriculum.

Marc

Yes, but I think it’s clear that these policies aren’t working very well. This link here gives a brief overview of a study recently done showing that abuse of gay teens is rampant. (It’s not a very good link… can anyone find a better one, one with more numbers?) You seem to be of the opinion that the school saying “Don’t harass anyone based on race, sex, or sexual orientation” is enough, and anything else is overkill. I don’t get that perspective.

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U.S. society has arbitrarily decided to value tolerance. If you disagree and feel tolerance is not a virtue at all, then I guess we’re at an impasse. Religious values preached in school tend to be of the “You must think such and such a way, or else you don’t belong.” Tolerance is the exact opposite.

What the hell kind of shit is that? You equate allowing them to exist with tolerance? And how the hell can you claim that you tolerate someone when you still make fun of them? That’s not tolerance, bucko.

I disagree. One aspect of the learning process is learning how society works. Didn’t you ever take a social studies course? A civics/government course?

You’ve set up another either/or scenario that I just don’t get. Yes, American students tend not to have a “good grasp” of the hard sciences. What in the name of Mr. T does this have to do with educating students about reasons why it’s NOT OK to beat the hell out of a gay student?
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Odd, I’d bet that’s probably a big focus of these so-called “Gay Ed” classes which you’re so vehemently opposed to. Why the sudden about-face?

Quix

Yours, or in general?

Well, I don’t knwo if I have the time for Gay Ed, but I think my friends have mostly covered that. But I would be willing to buy the class materials for S&M Ed.

Of course, I’m kidding. When I was little, I thought being gay meant you were assigned to date your own sex, and you weren’t allowed to date the opposite sex. Of course, I also thought you each had a cousin your own age and you had to marry that person.
:wink:

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Well obviously they need to enforce their own rules. Otherwise the rules are rather meaningless. On the other hand I don’t think we’ll ever be able to stop all forms of harassment at public school. For all the stuff teachers and faculty do observe I’m sure there’s much more that goes on outside of earshot.

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I recognize that tolerating others is pretty necessary in a society like ours. However I don’t hold tolerance to be all that important. You say that society “arbitrarily” decided to value tolerance. It sounds to me like you don’t value it all that much either.

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Tolerance is not the exact opposite. How tolerant are they going to be of those who have an opposing view?

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What is tolerance then? I think you’re confusing tolerance with acceptance. If the Grand Dragon of the KKK moves next door to me I will tolerate his existence. I won’t like him, I will associate with him as little as possible, and I will make fun of his silly beliefs. I won’t harass him, I won’t destroy his property, and I will not endanger his life. That is what tolerance is all about.

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Of course I did. Of course social studies in 6th grade was just world history in Colorado Springs. Maybe social studies was different when you were my age.

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Maybe I think they have bigger problems to focus on then promotion of acceptance, or tolerance, whatever it is you’re calling it. I don’t have any objections to teaching students that it is unacceptable behavior to beat up other students. I’m not sure why you thought I did.
Marc

Just a side note, about the people mentioning in passing that blacks, Asians, women, etc not getting their own curriculum…well, actually, they do. It’s not uncommon in every Black History Month and things of similar nature, and, for instance, you can’t really have a decent US history class without going somewhat in depth on Indian cultures.

And, taking a peek into a local community college class list, I see, in the University Studies (general requirements for graduation) among some of the options are:

WS 200: Introduction to Women’s Studies in the Social Sciences
WS 201: Introduction to Women’s Studies in the Arts and Humanities
ANT 221: Native People of North America
ENG 264: Major Black Writers
HIS 248: History of Islam and Middle East Peoples, 1250 to the Present
HIS 254: History of Sub-Saharan Africa
HUM 135: Introduction to Native American Literature
FAM 253: Human Sexuality: Development, Behavior & Attitudes
ANT 255: Human Sexuality in Cross-Cultural Perspective
(You can bet homosexuality is covered in the last two)

…and this is just the community college, and only the basic general requirements. The host university has a list four times as large, and there are many times that in optional specialized courses. It’s already here folks :wink:

Mekhazzio

Well done. Fight the good fight, and all that, but count on someone (I’m not naming names, but his initials will probably stand for Marc Gibson) observing that community college and university courses are qualitatively different from high school/junior high school/grade school courses. To begin with, while all of the courses you listed are electives, pre-college institutions make available a far lower portion of the school day for elective courses (at least, this was the case during my childhood school career [1961-1974]). Also, while school attendance is generally compulsory through high school(or age 18, and I’m not really interested in listing all the myriad exceptions everybody can think of, thank you very much), all college students are in their classrooms voluntarily.

I’m in agreement with you, for what it’s worth, but the good guys are usually better served by arguments that have fewer snags for the bad guys to latch onto.

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I wouldn’t mind high schools offering courses such as black history, women’s history, european history, gay history, or even 19th century poetry. These are just classes that have a particular focus in the fields of history or literature.

I just wouldn’t want a silly class introduced with the primary purpose of promoting tolerance instead of education.
Marc

Ah, but therein lies the problem. Only a couple of states specifically target by law harassment of students based on sexual orientation. For the most part, schools don’t include sexual orientation in their non-discrimination or anti-harassment rules. So maybe these schools are following their rules after all, but their rules are inadequate.

Perhaps not, but the levels can be drastically reduced. And schools not only have a moral and ethical duty to do so, they have a financial interest. More and more students are filing suit against schools and school officials alleging their unwillingness to protect them from anti-gay harassment and their negligent failure to act on harassment reports. A former student here in Wisconsin settled for close to a million dollars. I’ve read the complaints in some of these cases. Allegations of taunting, beatings, simulated rapes and worse. One student in Nevada had a noose placed around his neck and was told he was going to be dragged behind a pickup, in full view of a school security guard who did not intervene. A common response from school officials is that the students should try not to be so gay or at least not so “obvious” about it. And while these are extreme cases, the majority of gay students report that they hear anti-gay slurs or witness anti-gay conduct almost daily at school. Students shouldn’t have to be in survival mode at school, but until schools recognize their legal and ethical responsibilities they will be. If a “tolerance class,” backed up by actual willingness by the schools to enforce anti-harassment rules on behalf of gay students, is what it takes to make children safer in school I don’t see how anyone could in good conscience oppose it.

Gay Education? What, teachers need to instruct Gays on how to be Gay? We cannot even get good, uniform sex education in the schools, and now they want to teach Gays certain Gay things, like lifestyles and protection?

Get real!

I’m glad I’m not a teacher.

Anything else you folks out there want our underpaid, over worked, harassed, picked on and hog tied American teachers to teach? Lesbianism 101? Black Muslim 102? Nation of Islam 103? How to try to please everyone while pleasing no one #104? Stupidity 105? Aryan Nation 106? Christian Repression of Civil Rights 107?

Now is a bad time to be an American Teacher.
Like some one else said, I’m glad you’re not a teacher. I am, however, glad that I am, or at least, am about to be. Next year, I’ll be a junoir, and just two years away from being a teacher. I student taught all of this year, so I’m somewhat familiar with the challenges faced by teachers now. Add to this that I did my student teaching in Manhattan’s Lower East Side, at a school where 99% of the kids were on a lunch program (meaning that they were from very low income families), and I think I got a pretty decent idea of the problems teacher face. Let me tell you, I am THRILLED about this “gay-ed” thing. “Teaching Tolerance” is something that all teachers are being trained in now. It is considered and integral part of and elementary or high school education. In the year that I spent student teaching, my class covered various issues from race, to sexuality, to gender, to social class, to economic class, to anything else you could imagine. Did it take away from valuble instructional minutes? I don’t think so. My class still scored very well on the standardized test they have to take at the end of the year. Are they going to go out in the world and be better people, more tolerant of diversity, and promoting less hatred? I certainly hope so. And I think that’s a goal worth working towards.

Welcome to the SDMB, talia. I join the ranks of people who are glad that the OP isn’t a teacher—and I’m also very glad that you, on the other hand, are one.

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Is this a phenomonon that only affects gay students? Are they any reports from straight students regarding anti-gay slurs or conduct?

This is part of the reason I’d have problems with so called tolerance classes. The way you’ve worded your beliefs anyone who disagrees sounds like an insensitive prick. What would actually be taught in a tolerance class? Would it be limited to teaching what behavior is acceptable in a public forum?

Marc

Your recent posts beg the question, MGibson, of what can be defined as tolerance.

You seem to think that tolerance should not be taught, because then people might not tolerate intolerant people. Well, currently people aren’t tolerating people, not based on their actions, but based on their membership in despised minority populations. Personally, I think that behavior is a much better measure of a person than ethnicity or orientation.

Where do you personally draw the line? What sort of behavior will you tolerate, what won’t you tolerate? You say you’ll tolerate the Grand Dragon of the KKK living next door to you. Will you tolerate it when a cross gets burned on a neighbor’s lawn? Will you draw the line at a lynching? At what point would you call the cops?

Personally, I don’t care what people think. But what we’re talking about here are people’s actions. Active harassment, humiliation, and violence directed towards minority populations. And the best way to prevent these sort of things is through education.

You’ve said:

But it is a school’s responsibility to ensure that it is a safe learning environment for all students. You’ve seen statistics on the dropout rate among gay teens. The current policies are insufficient, and provably so; examining the problem and implementing solutions seems like a reasonable approach to me.

Another quote from you:

Anybody who harasses anyone because of differing beliefs, cultural or ethnic background, or orientation is an insensitive prick. Please note that I didn’t say anyone who holds differing opinions qualifies for that particular label; instead, you’ll notice, I referred to the action of harassment. Believe anything you want. Going around hurting people is wrong. Pretty simple ethical stance, but it works for me.