So I am reading a book on Chinese history and am confused. The 1911 revolution happens, Sun Yat-sen is president, and then Yuan Shikai takes over. Shikai becomes a dictaor, bans the Guomindang/Kuomintang, and dies. Then the war-lord period begins.
Questions:
At the Paris Peace Conference following WW1 that caused the May 4 Movement. Who were the Chinese delagation representing? Was there some kind of semi-official govt?
In 1923 the Guomindang/Kuomintang re-organize and later they and the Communists set out on the Northern Expedition to attack the northern warlords and re-unify China. Was the Guomindang/Kuomintang a rebel underground group at that point or were they the govt of some part of China?
1921: The Chinese Communist Party was established. It remained as the left wing of the overall Nationalist (anti-foreign, anti-warlord) movement, alongside the right-wing KMT, both receiving military advice from the Soviets in preparation of the Northern Expedition (1926-1927 - not 1923.)
1927: The Northern Expedition nicely wrapped up, the KMT kills every Communist it can lay hands on in Shanghai. Many have their heads tied before execution so they cannot shout Communist slogans as their last words. (The Communist abandon the Russian model of taking contol of the cities first and aquiring the countyside later, and eventually prevail using the reverse tactic.)
1928: Now purged of its Communist wing, the KMT wins the recognition of the USA as the legitimate government of China. The KMT’s biggest assistance comes diplomatically from the “Old China Hands” lobby (especially missionary-child and TIME magazine founder Henry Luce), and financially from the major drug lords of Shanghai. Key members of the Soong banking family act as intermediaries between these two groups, so that the missionaries can pretend that Chiang wasn’t as “mobbed-up” as he actually was.
:rolleyes: You don’t know the answers to the OP’s questions, but still take the opportunity to make an anti-KMT diatribe. Nice fighting of ignorance there.
Regarding question 1: From Jonathan Spence’s The Search for Modern China, pp. 293-294, it appears that the Chinese delegation to WWI armistice talks represented the local faction that was in control of Beijing at the time.
Regarding question 2: The KMT had indeed been ousted by Yuan Shi-kai (note that his surname was Yuan, not Shi-kai) when he established himself as dictator. But his regime soon collapsed and the country descended into “warlordism”, with different strongmen and factions controlling different parts of the country. The founder of the KMT, Sun Yat-sen, had the backing of warlords in the south, mainly Guangdong province IIRC. I’m hazy on the details, but by 1927 the party had indeed established government over the south, and went on to extend its control through the “Northern Expedition”.
And addressing the larger issue behind your questions: China at this time (1917-1927) was controlled by competing warlords and factions, but internationally I believe that the guys in control of the capital (Beijing) always enjoyed international recognition, such as it was.
Thanks, you guys rock. I even enjoyed the anti-KMT diatribe. History is so much more interesting when people are passionate.
It all makes more sense now. The May 4 demonstrations broke out in Beijing first, which is understandable if the delagation in Paris was representing the Beijing-based warlords.
Yes, I apologise for the slander. There was no such thing as the Green Gang, or if there was, Tu Yueh-sheng was not its leader, or if he was, he was impersonating an officer in his Nationalist Army general’s uniform. Henry Luce published fair-minded pieces about the Chiang regime that in no way can be construed as propaganda. And when the Nationalist, a government that cared deeply about it’s citizens’ well-being and their protection from the Japanese, were defeated by the Communists it was not the collapse of a house of cards that caused its American apologists to save face by stampeding into Vietnam.
The OP asked if the KMT was the legitimate government of China when launching the Northern Expedition in 1923 (sic.) Legitimate by what yardstick? Free and Open elections? Recognition by foreign governments? Elections were out of the question, else why have a military expediton instead? Foreign recognition, at least by the US, came in 1928 (coincidentally?) after the massacre of the Communists.
If it’s the “diatribe” you find objectionable, I could make that a “biatribe” and say plenty of the nasty things that can be said about the Communists, but we already know what butchers they were. What we don’t like to discuss about is what made their success possible.
No it didn’t. It asked if the KMT governed any part of China, and the answer is yes. No factions enjoyed any sort of legitimacy that would meet your 21st century Western standards–including the Communists.
Furthermore, I don’t know of anyone today aside from the (rump) KMT itself that doesn’t regard that party’s actions back in the day as reprehensible. It’s like you keep butting in with vehement assertions that the sky is blue. Uh, yeah, we’ve established that. :rolleyes:
BTW, there’s a lot more interesting and substantial liturature on China’s history than The Soong Dynasty , a tabloid treatment of history which you seem to enjoy whacking off to. If you have read any other book on the period and characters in question, I’d be interested to hear what it is. :dubious:
To answer both of your questions at once, there were various factions with varying degrees of control over limited sections of what has become Modern China claiming to represent China to the outside world. There was always some sort of government that claimed to be official, and some sort of government that the outside world recognized as official. Including the KMT at the time of the Northern Expedition
[There was a warlord that controlled Beijing, and that IIRC represented the legitimate government of China at end of WW1. Yuan Shi-kai had already assasinated rivals, disolved the Southern China government, proclaimed himself emporer for life, and died leaving anarchy before that time. China as a whole sure felt betrayed as foreign concessions were legitimized and/or granted to the English, and French, with the German concessions not returned to China but handed over to the Japanese, etc. despite Chinese support for the Allies in WW1]
Sun Yat-sen did not found the KMT. In August 1912 a new political party was founded by Song Jiaoren ( 1882-1913), one of Sun’s associates. The party, the Guomindang ( Kuomintang or KMT–the National People’s Party, frequently referred to as the Nationalist Party), was an amalgamation of small political groups, including Sun’s Tongmeng Hui. [Can search for tons of links on “northern expedition” China, and here’s just one: Republican China ]
Generalisimo Chiang Kai-shek (affectionately known by General Stillwell as “General Cash My Check” or “Peanut Head”), was basically a southern Warlord made good. He elevated Sun Yat-sen as figurehead because essentially Sun Yat-sen didn’t say jack (read the Three People’s Principles for yourself), but made good copy abroad and lent an air of legitimacy to a dictatorship that claimed to speak for China. Sun Yat-sen never had military power and one could really cast doubts on whether he ever wielded any real political power.