What is/was The First Vision?
It’s a story of how young Joseph allegedly was feeling disaffected by the churches around at the time, went out into the woods and prayed, got attacked by the devil, and then visited by God and Jesus, who told him he should start his own church.
Presuming that this happened, he waited at least ten years between the date of the vision and when he actually got around to starting a church - only after which was the alleged earlier event formally recorded.
I lived awhile on the far side of Hill Cumorah where Holy Joe received the plates. All local bars would officially shut down during the annual Mormon fest but did booming business out their side doors. Hookers didn’t starve, either. Beer-barrel parties continued at the Erie Canal locks in Palmyra, just down from the old digs of Jennie Churchill, Winnie’s mother.
I have stories. Spoiler: the locals aren’t bright. Holy Joe converted the adventurous and curious, leaving their dim relatives behind to procreate and bowl. But few earthquakes bothered them, so who got the best of the deal?
Huh. I’ve climbed that hill a couple times on car and foot and had assumed it was another Lake Bonneville shoreline. I also didn’t know that SLC was on a fault!
Where is this hill? I used to live near Liberty Park for a little while. It sounds like I was close to this, but can’t think of a hill - but it was years ago.
Several Blocks from Liberty Park – Faultline Park about at 4th South between 10th and 11th east
The hill that was so steep was on 3rd South between 10th and 1th.
my son lived next to fault line park
I lived in Rochester for about a hundred years in the late 1970s/early 1980s. Or maybe it just felt like that. I had an LDS office mate, and ended up visiting all the LDS high holy sites in the area, attending the Hill Cumorah pageant twice. Definitely a show worth seeing.
And THEN I moved out to Salt Lake City, and got really buried in LDS pop culture.
The First Vision is seen as the primary foundational event for Mormonism. Smith meets the entire Mormon godhood: God the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost, all three of whom are separate individuals, with the first two having actual physical (but “perfect” and “eternal”) bodies and the last a spirit.
Long after I left Mormonism, I used to joke with my liberal Catholic friend that the only difference between Mormonism and mainstream Christianity is that the early days happened recently enough that there is documented evident concerning what really happened. There are a number of scholars researching Mormon history as a way of understanding how doctrine can radically change in new religions as there isn’t this kind of evidence available for early Christianity.
It’s well documented that the version now canonized as part of the LDS scripture could not have occurred. Smith claimed that there were revivals in 1820. Even small details such as this have been shown to be incorrect.
For me, it was interesting to discover that Smith’s concept of the godhood evolved radically after the church was formed. In the early days, he was Trinitarian, and the first edition of the Book of Mormon reflected that. Part of it had to be rewritten later to fit his later views of God and Jesus being separate gods.
You mean between 11th and 12th East. That hill is a bitch. Second South also used to be quite steep but they redid it back in the 70s to make it less dangerous for cars.
My parents bought a half of a duplex above the hill near 4th South and 12th East for my grandmother to live. Several of us kids took turns living there while going to the U after she passed away.
That was sooooo much nicer than going up the hill everyday.
TokyoBayer, can you point to a reliable book or online article that gives more of those changes or discrepancies you mention? Some folks might not be able to tell that there were changes, or the little niggling details that point out errors.
If you want details about discrepancies in early LDS history, look at the stuff put out by the Utah Lighthouse Mission – the Tanners.
I used to visit their store in SLC, where they sold their privately-printed spiral-bound books that documented discrepancies and problems in the founding days of the LDS church. You will get more detail from their work than anywhere else. More than you want, likely.
Now you can shop online instead of having to go to their store. If you’re looking for one book, their magnum opus is Mormonism – Shadow or Reality?
http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitalbooks.htm
http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitaltitles/mormonismshadoworreality_db004.htm
Thanks for the reply, I can check that out. I always kind of thought the history the LDS put out was weird, if they’d had the kind of civilization on this continent that was dictated in the book, then where are/were the ruins?
Kay – you just opened a huge box of worms, there.
I cite the Tanners and all. And, not being raised LDS, the basic tenets of their faith seem very weird to me. (To quote a famous physicist, who was referring to something completely different, reading LDS the LDS view of the Universe is like walking down a familiar street and finding all the houses have been painted purple. Everything is there, but very different.)
I have lived among the LDS in upstate New York and in Utah, attended their services and their social functions, helped them move and clean. I was even Best Man at an LDS wedding*. But I recognize that arguing about such basics with them is not a good idea, and might cost you friends.
Both they and I recognized that we had different fundamental beliefs, and that’s that. I encourage learning about this, but if you want to pursue these questions, you will find that they have been asked often enough that there are regular responses to them. You can find them on the internet, if you look.
*not a Temple wedding, obviously. But if you lived far enough from a Temple, you were able to get married (although not “sealed”) in other venues, such as the Bishop’s house. others
I was raised LDs and also lived among the LDS in upstate New York and in Utah. I can only speak of things before the mid 1980s. Beyond that is second hand information.
The Mormonism - Shadow or Reality book was what got me started questioning. (long story). I also recommend that one.
There aren’t any ruins that show places and people in the Book of Mormon. I had heard that the purpose is so that people use faith rather than proof.
There was a movie (don’t know if they are still using it) called Ancient America Speaks. The purpose is to show archeological evidence for the Book of Mormon. It has things like:
A box that was found in Iran that is similar to a box described in the Book of Mormon (in the Americas)
There was something that was found that looks like it could be a baptismal font. Then again the swimming pool in my backyard could be one too.