No, jakeline, you’re fine. It’s Epimethus who has been whooshed, bigtime.
AMEN.
Super skinny bodies with gargantuan boobs attached are pretty rare in real life. Yet the media has been a bunch of busy little bees cramming this down our throats as the ideal of female beauty.
bolding mine
A lot of women think this because this is what is put in front of us as what we should be, and they, the media, and a HELL Of a lot of men, constantly remind us of what we fail to be.
And by the way, boobs, if real are FAT. That’s right boys, great big globs of FAT, FAT, FAT…jiggly, gooshy…NOT toned or firm body parts OH no…it’s FAAAAAAAAAAAT!
The very SAME fat that you dis us for, and put us down for if a bit of it should be on, GOD forbid, our butts or tummies.
Same EXACT kind of fat too. Only difference in a boob is that it’s got some mammary glands too.
Unless of course it’s a fake boob, then it’s a freaking PLASTIC BAGGIE for God Sake!!! Stupid media anyway…
The problem, and you’re either not getting our point, or purposely ignoring it, is that breats aren’t something one CAN “come by” through diet (no matter how good) or exercise, again, no matter how good.
You obviously don’t know all that much about women’s bodies if you think that they can. We are either born with the size breasts that we have, or we buy a set. Period.
Working out and eating correctly is NEVER going to give a woman a size 0 body with size 22 breasts. Which is what we are talking about when we say “unrealistic” or “unnatural”. Hugely oversized breasts on a tiny body aren’t common.
Yes, Yes…we know, it DOES happen, but it is not a common body type, NATURALLY. And for hollyweird and the media to showcase those who are tiny and have had breast implants, as if it WERE natural and attainable only by “proper exercise and diet” is wrong and insulting.
I know that on Animal Cops people get arrested when they allow their animal to rich the stage where their RIBS are showing through their skin. One doesn’t have to be “well padded” (nice euphamism) to be normal or healthy.
So far I haven’t seen anyone try to say that ONLY 8 - whatever size is normal. What I HAVE seen people say is that 8 etc is JUST as viable and healthy a size as the highly touted zeros and 2s.
By the way, Cindy Crawford wears an 8, so does Drew Barrymore. Gabrielle Reece weighs 175, more when she is actually playing and isn’t modeling. These are NOT “well padded” women.
From what I read in this thread, the beef is NOT “only size 8 and up is to be considered normal”, but “we’re sick of being told that ONLY size 2 and below is normal and desireable”.
CanvasShoes, thank god you showed up! ::smooch::
Awww…it’s nice to be missed by someone!! (I just got back from Katrina…whew…).
When I was in my mid-20s, on a bet I stepped through a tennis racket. (No strings.) And this wasn’t one of your modern wide-bodied tennis rackets, no sirree. It was an old-fashioned one.
The bet I had made was that if I could get my boobs through it I could get everything through it–being that I was quite busty, but otherwise scrawny, i.e., you could see my bones, etc. 5’5" and about 95 lbs.
At this time, in the mid-70s, I wore a size 5 or a size 6. I never, ever ran into anyone smaller than I was (shorter, yes, but not smaller) and if I’d worn a size smaller I would have been shopping in the children’s section. In fact I generally bought my jeans in the boys’ section, because otherwise anything that fit my waist (21" at the time) in the women’s section would hit me right above the ankles, which was not at all cool at the time (especially since it would have probably had a flare in those days).
Thirty years and 30 lbs later…I still wear a size 6. Yet, amazingly, that size 5 skirt from the late '70s? Cannot begin to zip it. And yet people say there is no size inflation. (Wait, maybe it shrank. Yeah, that’s it . . . it shrank, 30 lbs means nothing.)
But wait, there’s more. I also have some vintage clothes, including a whole bunch given to me by a friend of my mother’s because she thought they were too young for her. They fit me (or I should say, don’t fit me) exactly the same way the late-'70s size 5 doesn’t fit me. And yet these dresses, from American manufacturers, made in the late '50s-early '60s, are a size 10!
Sounds to me like 2 is the new 10.
Amen. I could have written that myself. People at work think nothing of making fun of my scrawny-ness, but what would happen if I mentioned their flabby bellies or thunder thighs?? I’d be raked over the coals and labeled a heartless bitch.
Their comments about my small size are demeaning and make me feel like they are insinuating that I have not yet joined the ranks of real womanhood because I don’t have a belly pooch or love handles. It usually goes something like this:
Snarky co-worker: I was your size once.
Me: Blank stare
SC-W: Whan I was in first grade!
Sorry mean co-workers, I’m almost 40 years old and have been a mother for 12 years, I’m every bit the woman you are, regardless of what size I wear.
And I also have learned to abstain from any mention of trying to gain weight. They can spend hours discussing the latest fad diet their into this week, but if I mention my quest to add a few pounds I get the :rolleyes:
Okay, so trying to improve my body in my own way is not as important as your attempts to improve yours. I’ll just be taking my biggie sized combo meal and eating in my office today, thank you.
No, I was saying that my two previous posts were deliberately written to be immature to prove a point. Obviously missed. I was deliberately being incoherent to mimic your ranting style, and being insulting to show you how it feels, since you felt the need to berate those debating with you. But as far up there on your high horse as you are, I can see how you missed it and just automatically assumed I was an idiot. Nothing new I am sure, your level of pretension is astounding.
I never left the topic, and you certainly did not shame me. Like some random bloke on the internet is going to make me feel shame? For standing up for others? Uh, yeah.
Well, then you are definately misrepresenting others positions then, because neither myself, LHOD or alice_in_wonderland are advocating that size 0 and 1 women are normal. If you weren’t busy telling us what we are saying, you might learn that.
Being and idiot again then. 18 is not a girl. It is a young women. 20-23 are not even teenagers anymore, and dismissing the young as not part of the norm is pretty ignorant. I also specifically stated that college was not my only sample size and that women my own age (28) often have similar builds. Sure, I admit it less frequent, but you never said “normal women are those between the ages of 25-45 and have had 1.5 kids.” You set up your own little defintion and of course it is going to be true. But who is living in the fantasy world now?
Again, see above.
So you are saying that women in size 0-1 that have big boobs are all having surgery? Wow, your sweeps are getting smaller and smaller, but still pretty sweeping. And I am well aware of how breasts are composed. I also now many heavy women that have small breasts, so size alone does not dictate a persons breasts size, genetics do.
And yes, find me your precious little cites. I imagine they will not be forthcoming.
18-23 isn’t 13-16. I am not the one looking at one sample age group, that would be you.
The conclusion follows from your argument. If you are not going that direction you better clarify, because all your little arguments lead right up to it.
Really, 13-14 year olds with big breats? Hmm, will have to take your word for it, but don’t remember them having such big breasts when I was in that age range.
You keep using the term projection in the psychological sense, but I don’t think you realize what it really means.
whereas I have been merely :
An alternative to the term projection that basically referrs to drawing and inference. Of which there is nothing wrong with that, in fact in logic and in debates it is acceptable. Especially when you don’t outright state your premise.
Of course “oggling” women doesn’t give me a sense of what it is like to be one. But that isn’t the debate, and that isn’t my argument. The fact that I haven’t been a women gives me an outside viewpoint that is fresh from your own. You have been one, and therefore you have all the biases of one, all the viewpoints from only the inside. I have your description as well as others descriptions to go on, and an outside perspective.
Well, I don’t really give a rats ass what you think is feminine either. You are a women, unless you happen to be gay, you don’t need an attraction for them. Thats like me setting the standard of attraction for men, it doesn’t matter what I think, it only matters to the guy what the women think.
Again, you aren’t the only adult, 18+ is considered adult, no matter what you think it should be or not. Claiming otherwise is simple delusion. Now, granted I am only 28 (with your tone I asusme you are like 40- typical of older people to dismiss the young as kids), but I started college when I was 26. I spent 10 years out in the work force, and still continue to do so. I come from a pretty decent sized city, and go out regularly. Now granted I don’t hang around retirement homes so I can’t speak for the upper portion of the population, but while there is a shift in body size as age progresses, my experience doesn’t support your claims that after some determinate age in which a girl becomes a women, they suddenly lose it all. I will say this again. College isn’t my only sample size. It was an example that was given to prove your claim wrong.
I am too old to date them IMO.
It is of course hyperbole, but I am serious, yes. In what why do you find this so silly you would think it is a joke? There have been many very sucessful non-JS body types out there, even some larger ones. They have had very sucessfull careers, and have even been the roll model for many kids and adults alike. There could be more, which would shift the perception further that it is ok to look however one wants.
Getting up in the spotlight takes some serious self-esteem. I think I am comfortable with my body but I couldn’t be an actor. I seriously think the reason there isn’t more larger people on the silver screen is because often self-esteem drops as size increases. Which IMO is a shame.
Oops, I mean that 0-1 women are not the norm. Not saying those that fall into that size are not normal and are some kind of freaks. Just that it is at the bottom of the bell curve. A matter of percentages rather than normalcy. (which I don’t equate)
YOu said some disparaging things about a certain body type. You got confronted on it, and denied that you’d disparaged a certain body type. I quoted the places where you’d said these things, and you said you stood by them. I concluded that you were in denial. You responded with, essentially, “I know you are, but what am I?”
What are you, nine?
I’m done with you. I thought you could talk like a grownup, but instead you resort to low blows that make no sense. If you decide to talk maturely, let me know.
Daniel
You say this to me when your compadre Epimethius resorts to calling me a baglady, but not such chastisement for him? You’re full of it.
“Compadre”? WHere have you seen me responding to him at all? I saw that insult toward you, rolled my eyes, and exercised the pagedown key over the rest of his posts. He’s not my compadre, my ally, or my friend in this; what he says is not what I say.
Daniel
Wow . . . you know, I never thought of this aspect, but you’re right! That excactly the impression that I was getting but never quite knew how to put into words.
I don’t have kids, so that probably adds to my not-a-real-woman burden.
Me, too.
Every time I go to the doctor’s office, I wear my heaviest clothing, but she’s not fooled. She hounds me ceaselessly: “Have you been drinking milkshakes like I told you? Are you eating enough salt? How about french fries? Do you like french fries? I want you to eat at least one large order per day.” She’s a great doctor, but man, is she one nagging bitch! 
For me, though, any weight gain seems to be a temporary victory. The problem is my appetite-- I really can’t “stuff” myself. Once I’m not hungry any more, that’s it-- I can’t eat another bite or it gags me. My body seems to calculate internally what I’ve eaten: if I had pizza for lunch, I won’t be very hungry at dinner.
It gives me an unusual problem: I feel guilty if I eat “healthy.” I think that instead of eating that delicious steamed rice and veggie dish, I should have gotten a cheeseburger.
I’m probably one of the only women in the Western Hemisphere that doesn’t like chocolate. Nor do I like cake, candy, or pie. My co-workers always bring those things in to share, and when I refuse, they always point out that this is why I’m so skinny-- I don’t eat anything. They don’t believe me if I told them I had half of a large pizza the night before.
Oh, you’re full of it. I never insulted you, said you needed to be medicated, or called you a baglady. Those were unprovoked ad hominem attacks and you know it. That’s poor rhetoric and served only to make you look like an ass.
So calling me a whackjob, a baglady, and making fun of my cats was ON TOPIC to you? No, sorry. And it’s not you that’s standing up for others, it’s me. I’m the one advocating a more liberal interpretation of the female form so that women of different shapes and sizes can feel good about themselves. You’re idealizing women between 18-22, which is unrealistic and wrong.
So now they’re NOT normal? What? I think they ARE normal, but they are not the ONLY normal.
They are very young women and some of them are still finishing up their filling out, some are fresh out of puberty. You were holding them ups as your sample population, which is ludicrous. You can’t compare a 20 year old woman with a 40 year old mother of three and have the same expectations. Is my point.
Please show me where I said that. Some women that size are getting boob jobs, though. In my experience (and I know women of ALL different ages, from 12-70’s) the vast majority of women who are size 0-2 are A or B cups. Their breasts often look larger than they are because the rest of the woman is so small, or because they wear foundation garments that accentuate what they have, but they rarely are that big in general. This is why Jessica Simpson looks wrong.
Women naturally have fat on their bellies, hips, and thighs:
Women are supposed to store fat:
Not JS, but the AVERAGE woman. JS would be dead on Day Three of that 60-90 day fast, methinks.
Have you had enough?
Yep, 13-14 year olds with big breasts who look like they’re 18. It’s true. They will probably look more like 23 at 18, and then more like 30 at 23. Girls are maturing much younger than they used to, which I also think is dangerous for them, developmentally.
First of all, bozo, the singular for “women” is “woman.” These two words are not interchangeable. Second, women seem to care what other women think, even more than they care what men think. I am not setting a standard for what’s attractive nor was that ever my point. My point, which is getting pretty belabored now, is that the cultural standard is unhealthy.
They are not a representative sample of what all women should look like. They may be adults in the legal sense, but their bodies are young and have not started secreting the hormones that will change their bodies.
Wrong, but OK, whatever.
What’s a shame is that you’re part of what keeps them out of the spotlight and you don’t even realize it.
Your dismissal of me as “not an adult” because I disagreed with you and tossed your own condescension back at you is pretty ridiculous. I think I’ve stayed on my rhetorical tack and have argued my points as effectively as I can in this environment. Your reaction to my arguments makes me think you don’t really want to get into this conversation with me, so you too are resorting to taking shots at me and acting like I’m not debating with you, when it’s you who isn’t debating with me.
This thread is getting really tiresome. I can’t keep repeating myself when everyone is arguing against ME and not MY POINTS. Clearly is is a button issue for a lot of people, and it’s hard to see straight about it.
Also, Epimethius, what makes you think Jessica Simpson has great self-esteem? She has had serious weight fluctuations, a nose job, two boob jobs, and collagen injections in her lips. If she loved herself and was happy with her body, why would she fuck with it so much? She was beautiful before any of these alterations, and now she looks plastic and fake. I think she’s more to be pitied than scorned, that she’s submitted herself to doctor’s knives to attain this look that YOU hold up as natural and healthy. Ditto for Lindsay Lohan, who was very ill because of this alleged “self-esteem” you claim she must have in order to be in the spotlight, and the Olsen girl, and god knows which other celebrities.
It’s just so screwed up.
A lot of the people I’ve run into have made the “real woman” thing pretty damn explicit, too. I’ve been told that men who are attracted to my body type are hebophilic homosexuals in denial, because my small breasts and skinny form are “adolescent boy” rather than “real woman”.
I don’t even know what my “size” is. And I put “size” in scare quotes because women’s sizing is fucking insane. I just go try stuff on until I find things that fit on the rare occasions I hunt clothes.
I strongly suspect nitwits would mistake me for someone in good physical condition.
Rubystreak, I’m on your side. I don’t have anything to say that won’t be shouted down, so I’m not bothering, but I am on your side, if that helps any.
Okay, I will add something. The idea that the only reason other-than-slender women are not media superstars is that they all have low self-esteem is one of the most outlandish ideas I’ve ever heard, and I’ve been around for a long time.
Are you on her side that women of all shapes and sizes ought not to be insulted? If so, I’m on that side, too.
Are you on her side that it’s not insulting a certain shape and size of women to call it emaciated, toothpick-armed, desperately needing carbs, etc.? Because if so, I’d be curious in hearing someone back up that claim.
Daniel
Just a nitpick, but do you have a cite for Lindsay getting implants? Yeah, she, uh, blossomed quite a bit in a short period of time, but it seems unlikely she actually got implants considering that they disappeared as she lost weight. Silicone doesn’t do that.