Ebay and Ebay fink, I pit thee. And thine.

[Evil_Captor]

@Sublight

Well, my real objection is that it’s juvenile and lacking in any real originality, but had you photographed your own models (or simply drawn them yourself), then I guess I’d have little to do but simply shrug my shoulders and ignore it.

OK, we’re almost in agreement here. If you wanna consider my stuff juvenile etc. that’s cool. I don’t expect to see my stuff hanging in the Louvre or the National Gallery anytime soon. Heck I’m not even in a league with guys like Frank Frazetta and Frank Cho and Alex Ross. I still manage to have fun and make a little coin at it. Nothing wrong with that is there?

Oh, right. You think there is.

Well, let’s deal with that. Although I use Britney and Christina’s first names, I don’t know them in person. I don’t know them as people at all. I know them as artists who intentionally seek fame to promote their products (and inflame their egos as well, I’m sure) which is why they posed for the sort of photos I used to create my artwork. I don’t begrudge them the money, fame and success they’ve achieved, but you know, that fantasy of who and what they are that constitutes “celebrity” is not something they made by themselves. In essence they are colonizing our culture with their images and so forth for their own profit and aggrandizement.

I don’t see why it should be a totally one-way street. I think I ought to be able to come up with my own responses to the culture and be rewarded as well, even if my response is (as in this case) an adaptation of something someone else has done in the culture.

This is closer to the Japanese model, where fans are free to create fan art and so forth and to publish them for money so long as they make it clear that it’s fan art and not something form the Original Artist.

Yeah, I know, this is Amurka. But you know, being Amurkan isn’t laways the same as being right.

[blowero]

@Evil Captor

BTW, Britney’s stance facing the viewer is why she’s wearing panties and Christina’s not. In both original images, they wore panties, but I liked the way Christina looked without them from the side just fine. Taking the panties off Britney would have been fun and all, but revealing her genitals would have gotten me out of the R-rated movie poster/romance novel territory I was shooting for. A lot of work to accomplish something I didn’t really want to accomplish.

Gee willikers, Spanky - Betcha had to take a break to slap the monkey right in the middle of doing that.:rolleyes: You might want to mop behind the toilet.

[Evil_Captor]

@Sublight

And while you may not need Spears’ or Aguilera’s permission, I’m pretty sure you’d need the permission of the photographer who shot the original photos (or whoever owns the copyright), as they are both undoubtedly cut and pasted from copyrighted images.

If all I had done was cut and paste the figures, I’d agree, but these two figures have been HEAVILY reworked. I mean, HEAVILY. Christina’s figure isn’t even a single figure, it’s a combination of two figures, with extensive work on her torso because I had to remove the arm that was pulling her panties down, along with the panties. Christina’s arm in the foreground isn’t her from shortly after the elbows down, the one in the background is a copy of the reworked arm.

Britney’s torso is reworked as well, not just because of the breasts which were a LOT of work (btw, “slave beads” is a big deal on Gor. I think the gals have to EARN them. The hard way.) but also the lower torso because I had to move Britney’s arm which was pulling down her panties as well (popular pose I guess).

Their faces were what took the most work. I reworked their noses, their mouths, their chins, their jaws, and their hair.

You think it’s so easy, try it yourself. Cut and paste indeed.

[UrbanChic]

Aw, there’s no need to rag all over Evil’s artistic expression!

I haven’t seen it, though, so what do I know?

[Evil_Captor]

@blowero

Gee willikers, Spanky - Betcha had to take a break to slap the monkey right in the middle of doing that.:rolleyes: You might want to mop behind the toilet.

Blowero, I can’t respond to your posts as their semantic content has reached the level of inarticulate gurgling.

[pulykamell]

I appreciate anyone who attempts to at least supplement their living through art, and I admire your passion and dedication to your work. Creatively, I’m not particularly drawn to this kind of art, so I’ll try to refrain from that sort of criticsm. But there are also key technical issues that bother me with this montage: The hair bugs me; that middle chain leading to nowhere baffles me, but also, the lighting is all over the place in this photograph.

Britney is lit mainly from the right. Christina is lit from a source behind and to the left of her, and filled coming from the right.

Christina’s face is lit differently than her body – she’s got highlights on both side of her hair, indicating to strong light source on either side, slightly behind, with a fill in the middle. Her body doesn’t have the rim lighting you would expect on the right side of her body like her hair does.

The light on each model’s hair is completely different.

Where the heck is the light from the setting sun? It ain’t the backlight, as the backlight is too white to be the highlight lighting on their hair and bodies.

Where are the specular highlights in the chains? Some have them, some don’t, and it ain’t a matter of the chains being in shadows, either.

What’s up with Britney’s arms? The arms don’t seem to be able to fold that way.

And, umm, that hand behind Britney’…does that belong to somebody else, because if it’s Brittney’s hand, it’s, uh… well, unless her right arm is dislocated and bent over itself, that’s a right hand you have Photoshopped in there…

[htns]

@blowero

I took a shit last night that was more artistic.:rolleyes: You want to make yourself little jackoff pictures in Photoshop, that’s fine, but don’t put that garbage on eBay. Did it ever occur to you that Christina and Brittney are human beings who might not appreciate having their images used that way, especially when it’s for your profit, you fucking prick?

Christina and Britney upset at being used as jackoff material?

BUAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha!!!111111

You are so TOTALLY kidding me, right?

[blowero]

@Evil Captor

Blowero, I can’t respond to your posts as their semantic content has reached the level of inarticulate gurgling.

Wow, your writing is almost as clever as your “artwork”.

You’re really fucking serious, aren’t you? You think you’re some sort of artist, and this is like a First Amendment issue or something. Jesus Christ that’s pathetic. Seriously.

[Never_Have_I_Because_I]

I think it was reported for being a crime against humanity. Time spent on ‘art’ != Quality of Said Image, dipshit.

Stop wahing about putting sooooooooooooo much effort into it. It still sucks.

[Evil_Captor]

@pulykamell

Britney is lit mainly from the right. Christina is lit from a source behind and to the left of her, and filled coming from the right.

You’re right, the lighting generally is uneven. A problem with collage generally. I don’t have any magical way to shift the lighting around where it should be, so I’ve come up with a scenario: the dark area they are walking into has a TV studio hidden in it, and the lights on Britney are coming from the unseen TV studio. That also expalins the whitenes of the light on Christina.

The light on Christina is different because she’s more exposed ot the light from the setting sun, whereas Britney is almost all in the shadow of the setting sun and is lit mainly by the unseen TV studio lights. That would be from Norman’s novel, “Unseen TV Studios of Gor.”

Well, it works for me.

What’s up with Britney’s arms? The arms don’t seem to be able to fold that way.

And, umm, that hand behind Britney’…does that belong to somebody else, because if it’s Brittney’s hand, it’s, uh… well, unless her right arm is dislocated and bent over itself, that’s a right hand you have Photoshopped in there…

Umm, Britney’s arms are a problem. They’re supposedly bering held in a shibaribondage-like position, which this would work for, but it’s not right where I’d like it. As for the hand, it’s reversed, alrighty, but I don’t think most folks would notice or care. Its not the point of the pic. So we’ll say that when the Kurii kidnapped Britney and took her to Gor, they put her through a space transporter that accidentally reversed her hands. Damn space transporters!

[Evil_Captor]

@Never Have I Because I

I think it was reported for being a crime against humanity. Time spent on ‘art’ != Quality of Said Image, dipshit.

Stop wahing about putting sooooooooooooo much effort into it. It still sucks.

Off you go to the peanut gallery with Blowero.

[Jenaroph]

This page answers questions about intellectual property laws better than what I could find in eBay’s TOS. There are a number of points touched upon that apply to EvilCaptor’s work, such as right of publicity and copyright infringement. Fair use does not apply because he is attempting to sell the work. Freedom of speech does not allow him to profit from someone else’s work.

It does not matter that the photos have been heavily reworked. EvilCaptor still need explicit permission from both the subjects and the photographers to use them if he plans to profit from their use. “Everyone else does it!” is no excuse.

[pulykamell]

@Evil Captor

You’re right, the lighting generally is uneven. A problem with collage generally. I don’t have any magical way to shift the lighting around where it should be, so I’ve come up with a scenario: the dark area they are walking into has a TV studio hidden in it, and the lights on Britney are coming from the unseen TV studio. That also expalins the whitenes of the light on Christina.

C’mon, man, you’re REALLY stretching it here. You have to make up a scenerio to expalin how your picture works? I hope you’re being tongue in cheek here.

Anyway, with collage YES you have a way to shift the lighting…use different pictures. At least keep the lighting on the heads and bodies the same. Whereas most people may not know exactly what is wrong about the picture, I’d wager that all off them would say something is “off” about it.

Otherwise, if you’re going to show blatant disregard for lighting (which is okay in collage), go for it. But as it is, you’re picture is trying to come off as some sort of fantasy pseudo-realistic montage. You’re trying to portray it as somewhat believable; you’ve put effort into making the picture work together as a whole, but the lack of attention to lighting just jars totally against the feel of the rest of the work.

Umm, Britney’s arms are a problem. They’re supposedly bering held in a shibaribondage-like position, which this would work for, but it’s not right where I’d like it. As for the hand, it’s reversed, alrighty, but I don’t think most folks would notice or care.

You’re admitting your put a right hand on a left arm and that nobody will care. You bitch about your painstaking work and attention to detail yet you screw up such a basic point, and shrug it off as unnoticeable. Um, it’s a big deal. Once one person figures out that screw up, nobody will be able to look at that picture the same again. Why in the hell would you accept less than perfection in your work? As an artist, seriously, why? It’s not like a continuity error in a movie that whizzes by. It’s always there. And already we have plenty of people saying that there’s just something weird about her arms and hands, but can’t quite place it. The eye notices. Trust me. With lighting, with these details, the eye notices, even if the brain doesn’t know right away what’s wrong with it.

Instead of saying, ah who cares, why don’t you, say, fix it?

Its not the point of the pic. So we’ll say that when the Kurii kidnapped Britney and took her to Gor, they put her through a space transporter that accidentally reversed her hands. Damn space transporters!

Yeah, well art is part concept, part technique. Maybe your concept is fine; like I said, I’m not commenting on that. But the technique leaves a lot of room for improvement. If you want to be professional, at least act professional, accept criticm, learn from your mistakes, and move on. Don’t make excuses. Because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

[Evil_Captor]

@Jenaroph

This page answers questions about intellectual property laws better than what I could find in eBay’s TOS. There are a number of points touched upon that apply to EvilCaptor’s work, such as right of publicity and copyright infringement. Fair use does not apply because he is attempting to sell the work. Freedom of speech does not allow him to profit from someone else’s work.

It does not matter that the photos have been heavily reworked. EvilCaptor still need explicit permission from both the subjects and the photographers to use them if he plans to profit from their use. “Everyone else does it!” is no excuse.

I don’t believe I used it as an excuse. If you are on a crowded interstate and everybody around you is doing 80 where the speed limit is 65 and you are doing 70, you are still going faster than the speed limit, but you aren’t exactly the pick of the litter as far as the law is concerned.

My other arguments address what’s right and what’s moral rather than what’s legal. My feeling is that orgs like RIAA and their equivalents in other media that backed the DMRC serve no interests but their own and the lucky few artists who have won the Mass Media Lottery, pretty much oprressing everyone else in the process. I don’t think what I have done harms Britney or Christina in any real way. I don’t think most of the others are harming them either.It’s all just pointless trashing of small businesspeople to make those high-priced lawyers we have way too many of look good.

[FisherQueen]

You talk about what you think is right and fair, but I’m really troubled that you don’t think it’s wrong to appropriate someone’s image and use it in a way they haven’t approved. Christina and Britney and many others make a living off by a highly sexualized image, it’s true, but they that doesn’t mean that anyone who likes can do as they like with that image.

Some people might consider me a public figure. But if someone altered my image and spread around pictures of me tied up and naked without my permission, and for their own profit, I’d be horrified, appalled, and I’d feel violated. Sure, I’m a mild-mannered English teacher and these girls are wildly popular pop stars, but they have the same legal rights that I do.

Frankly, your arguments seem rather childish. You should be able to violate the law because other people are doing it worse? Other people commit mass murder- that doesn’t mean I should be allowed to throw my kitten off the roof.

I think the copyright laws are essential in a society like ours, in which so many people make their living from the products of their minds. Sure, the laws protect the piles of money made by the superrich stars. But they also protect all the little guys, scraping by creating artwork and music and selling it to a few dozen fans. They’d even protect your work, if you were creating original work rather than just copy-and-pasting other people’s work. If you can’t paint well enough to make your visions real, you could hire a couple of college students to tie up and photograph. You’d make art that says exactly what you want to say, you’d be obeying the law, your images would be protected by the law, and you’d even solve those pesky lighting problems.

[Evil_Captor]

@pulykamell

C’mon, man, you’re REALLY stretching it here. You have to make up a scenerio to expalin how your picture works? I hope you’re being tongue in cheek here.

Anyway, with collage YES you have a way to shift the lighting…use different pictures.

Have you ever done this sort of stuff? Yeah, there are a LOT of pictures of both singers extant on the Web. But it’s very, very hard to find a pic that’s even close to what you want, most of the time. The matter of color, lighting, pose nd how damn good the pic looks have a lot to do with it. Frex, I found a Japanese bondage model’s pics with all sorts of cool barbaric metal chains, cuffs, etc., that would have been PERFECT as a substitute for Britney’s body – except that her pic was WAAAY more contrasty than Britney’s, so much so that it was totally unusable. If I were as deeply concerned as you are about Britney’s lighting, what I would probably do is go with just Christina, whose pic much more closely matches the lighting. In fact, I have this option, as I created the art as a multi-layered PSD and all I’d do with it is turn off Britney’s layer(s).

At least keep the lighting on the heads and bodies the same. Whereas most people may not know exactly what is wrong about the picture, I’d wager that all off them would say something is “off” about it.

Not sure what you’re on about here. The heads in this case go with the bodies. It isn’t that kind of cut and paste job.

Otherwise, if you’re going to show blatant disregard for lighting (which is okay in collage), go for it. But as it is, you’re picture is trying to come off as some sort of fantasy pseudo-realistic montage. You’re trying to portray it as somewhat believable; you’ve put effort into making the picture work together as a whole, but the lack of attention to lighting just jars totally against the feel of the rest of the work.

I am sure that for some people it does. For others, no. I don’t think they’ll notice, or care. Every artwork is a compromise between what you want to do, and what you have the time and ability to do. I suppose I coul noodle around with this sucker forever, getting every detail just right. I’d enjoy it, to tell the truth. But in the real world, you have to do real-world stuff, in real world time.

You’re admitting your put a right hand on a left arm and that nobody will care.

Of course, some people will care. But many won’t even notice.

Instead of saying, ah who cares, why don’t you, say, fix it?

I plan on doing so, as opportunity permits. But frankly, I am not disposed to spend much more effort on it, until I find a market for it.

Yeah, well art is part concept, part technique. Maybe your concept is fine; like I said, I’m not commenting on that. But the technique leaves a lot of room for improvement. If you want to be professional, at least act professional, accept criticm, learn from your mistakes, and move on. Don’t make excuses. Because that’s exactly what you’re doing.

I’m well aware I can do better, and so can others. I don’t care about being “professional” or “amateur” or any other such artificial thing. The thng I care about is, “how close is this to what I wanted?” “Siren Slavegirls” came … pretty durned close.

Oh, all the scenarios? Just having fun. C’mon, “Unseen TV Studios of Gor?”

[Never_Have_I_Because_I]

@Evil Captor

Off you go to the peanut gallery with Blowero.

Your art is shitty. Accept it.

[Evil_Captor]

@Never Have I Because I

Your art is shitty. Accept it.

Aren’t you the jerk who’s currently being smothered under a truly humongous pileup over on “Libertarian is a bully”? Really, you aren’t making friends here, or influencing people. Well, not in any way a sane person would want to.

[Evil_Captor]

@Never Have I Because I

Your art is shitty. Accept it.

Aren’t you the jerk who’s currently being smothered under a truly humongous pileup over on “Libertarian is a bully”? Really, you aren’t making friends here, or influencing people. Well, not in any way a sane person would want to.

[Kansas_Beekeeper]

Art = No.

Badly done juvenile softcore wanking material = Yes.