Economic Base for Harry Potter's World

OK, so I didn’t do a search of the billion HP threads.

This is actually a general question thread, but this is my main question: how do the people in the wizarding world get their money?

I understand that there are jobs that pay-Ministry of Magic, the shops, Hogwarts. But how do the Malfoys come by their wealth? Or Sirius’ aunt? How is such wealth sustained? Draco’s family has maintained their position for over a decade (and that’s nothing when it comes to the landed gentry in England), but how?

In UK, wealth came from land, whether it was agriculture or mining (coal), but what drives this in Harry’s world? Any ideas?

I am rereading book 5-I find it restful between grad school assignments.

And what did James do? He as an Auror, right? Was Lily?

I get the feeling the Malfoys may well be the magical equivalent of landed gentry. Maybe they actually do own land. It doesn’t really say.

James and Lily were both aurors.

Seems like several families (Sirius’s included) are the equivalent of landed gentry and have been wealthy for generations. I don’t remember a lot of information about this aspect of the magical world, but I’ve been re-reading HP this summer. I’ve got a couple of books to go before I pick that up again with 4, but I’ll read it (and the rest) with your question in mind, rigs.

GT

Ok, but. Do wizards farm? And if so, with what labor? Gnomes? Elves? Some heretofore undescribed magical critter? (I really just wanted to use the word, heretofore…).

I mean, is their society agriculturally based? If so, who and where do they import/export to? What are their crops? Crops=land and how to hide that from Muggles? If they can conjure stuff-why not food as well? How are the foodstuffs distributed-broom? Apparating?

Maybe I’m a bit too wrapped up in this…

I’m with the other posters who think the Malfoys are the equivalent of landed gentry. I wouldn’t be surprised if it were to turn out that the original Malfoy fortune was founded on something somewhat shady back in magical history, like exploiting house elf labor. Or black market magical supply trafficking (which seems somewhat supported by Malfoy’s collection in the books). Or – what is it called (I swear I’m getting dumber every day) – where you play both sides of a supply line during wartime? Anyway, something not very savory.

Moving to the magical economy in general, there is possibly a farm system for growing the crops to make the various ingredients in potions, they seem rather specialized. I would guess the land is somehow hidden from the Muggle world, or co-exists with it without the Muggles realizing.

Is magic powered by anything? Is there a wizardly equivalent of a utility company? If there is, I can see why it hasn’t come up in the books too much – I’m not sure “Harry Potter and the Deregulation of Municipal Utilities” would be such a page-turner.

In terms of work force, one thing I am always perplexed by is the size of the Wizard world. In scenes like the Quidditch World Cup, the crowd is enormous and the coverage of events in the Daily Prophet implies a large population. Yet Hogwarts itself is not that big, and even if you look at just England, what percentage of young people are at Hogwarts and where are the rest of them? (I know this ground has been covered before on the SDMB.)

Because I clearly have too much time on my hands, I’ve also wondered about the economics of Wizard/Muggle marriages. I understand working for the value of work, but if you were a Muggle, and your Wizard spouse could conjure most of your basic needs, would you bother? Do you pay (Muggle) taxes for both people? Arthur Weasley just seems so clueless, I can never figure out why he doesn’t simply get more information from those Wizards who have married Muggles or from the Wizards who have one Muggle parent.

I’m not sure that it’s an entirely closed economic system. A good number of wizards are born in Muggle families, so they have access to Muggle wealth. Imagine the Malfoys as descended from some nasty little Muggle baron (despite their ‘pureblood’ stylings) with a good head for investment.

It’s never been clear to me how the Weasleys could be poor and the Malfoys rich, given that magic seems to have not cost and wizards do not appear depleted after using magic. While one needs to buy food, it’s clear from Hagrid’s actions at the lighthouse that fire can be conjured. Much of Mrs. Weasley’s work is managed magically at home, though the addition of magicalk impediments and creatures at Grimmauld Place slows cleaning considerably.

We see at Gringott’s that wizards have a gold-based economy. We know they have valuables that are similar to Muggle valuables, and in addition there are objects of magical value. Although it’s not canon, I’ll WAG that historically some wizards earned a stipend from the Muggles they lived with (i.e., the village hag with the herbal potions, the old guy in the cave casting hexes on your neighbor’s sheep, etc.). Others provide goods and services for wizards.

In Le Guin’s Earthsea books, the wizards have Muggle-like jobs (e.g., fishing) but also specialized magical jobs (e.g., windworking). Many of higher status appear to work in the rulers’ courts, meaning they are ultimately supported by peasant labor. Also, the house-elves are slave-labor for either services or production of goods.

Wizard jobs: Professor, groundkeeper, caretaker, medical, shopkeeper, inventor, candymaker, politician, auror, bus driver, bus attendant, train conductor (presumably), trolley-pusher, cursebreaker, dragontrainer, executioner, potionmaker, lawyer/judge (informal?), receptionist, wandmaker, artisan, innkeeper, musician, newspaper writer, trainer of security trolls, Muggle liaison, and others. Many jobs are implied by the existence of, say, parchment and pens.

It is not clear to me that the Potters were aurors. Anyone have a cite?

The woeful lack of career education and services at Hogwarts inspired me to write a critique and suggestions for improvement. It will appear as a chapter in The Psychology of Harry Potter: An Unauthorized Examination of the Boy Who Lived from BenBella Books, forthcoming next summer.

They probably grow them in national parks like some pot growers do. Or maybe they grow them in home greenhouses, as I’ve heard some pot growers also do. I would imagine there’s less need for secrecy than the pot growers have, since the magical ingredients generally aren’t controlled substances in the Muggle world.

I wonder why the wizards haven’t stumbled onto the idea of getting some interest on their deposits at Gringotts. It’s not like it’s some sort of new Muggle idea (the Hebrew Bible denounces it), and the wizards don’t seem to have a single common religion that forbids it.

Maybe he has his own theories on how Muggle institutions and objects work, and won’t listen to anyone telling him he’s wrong.

I seem to recall in one book Hermione’s parents changing their muggle money for galleons and sickles at Gringotts, so there is at least a recognised exhange rate.

It’s possible that the wizarding economy is a “parasite” economy, so to speak. I can picture the Ministry of Magic and magical organisation licensed to conduct business with muggles raking in a huge amount of cash, which probably means Wizards are paid comparitively much more than muggles would be at similar jobs/positions.

I love it! I would read it, sadly enough…
As for Arthur Weasley, his ignorance is just comic relief. At least I hope so. Then again, ask some people who have never travelled about rural Mongolians or similiar–bet they’d sound like AW. Especially since AW doesn’t have TV or the Internet to expose him to the Muggle world. On the other hand, he is an adult, with a responsible position-it’s his JOB to know stuff about Muggles, so he needs to get on it.
Shoshana --lack of career ops? How can you say so? Why, there must be at least 6 or 7positions that the 3 look at in the 5th year… :wink: I look forward to that book-I’m impressed!
I don’t doubt for a minute that the Malfoys and the Blacks (and the LeStrange’s) represent the landed gentry. But I doubt their economy is agri-based. I think it’s more gun running type stuff and the double dealings referred to upthread. I can easily see a Malfoy progenitor as a kind of Carpetbagger.

7 kids makes anyone poor, IMO. I also think that the MOM doesn’t value Muggles Dept, so AW’s salary is less than perhaps it should be. You would think that it would be a vital Dept, but it lacks prestige.

RE the Potter’s being Aurors. I know they are referred to as working against the Deatheaters, but I don’t recall them being named as Aurors.

I wonder if it’s pegged to the pound. For that matter, I wonder if Galleons and Sickles are universal wizard money, or just British wizard money.

For that matter, they don’t even seem to really care who they hire for that job. There are probably quite a few Muggle-born wizards or wizards married to Muggles or just wizards who have regular contact with the Muggle world who’d be much better qualified for it than AW is.

Though “knowing stuff about Muggles” isn’t precisely his job. His job is to deal with enchanted items that fall into Muggle hands. You would think, though, that knowing how Muggle items are supposed to work would be very helpful in that job.

Oh, you wouldn’t be alone. I’m pretty sure there’s a book called something like “If Harry Potter Ran GM.” If someone doesn’t beat me to it, I’ll try to get a cite up later. Now, however, since I am not a witch I must stir my own Thai chicken!

If Harry Potter Ran General Electric: Leadership Wisdom from the World of the Wizards. Given how disorganized and emotional Harry is, and how draconian the Ministry, I’m not sure see them as models for leadership, but then, I haven’t read the book.

I agree with you on the comic relief! I am able to take the books at face value and enjoy them thoroughly while I read :slight_smile: but I am also the kind of nitpicky person who after the fact is strangely compelled to plot out detailed strategies for Arthur Weasley to be more successful at work.

They were at war, so to speak, so I wonder if the Auror business was a “promotion in the field” sort of thing – Wizards having to step up to the plate.

Hmm. Were the Longbottoms referred to as aurors? Who else was in the Order the first time around, and which of them are named as aurors?

I wonder about the “seigniorage” of Galleons, Sickles, and Knuts. Is there a free exchange between Wizarding money and Muggle money based on the metal content? Or is wizarding money magicked in some way that means that specie has to be “imported” into the wizarding system by some magical propriatary process, presumably controlled by Gringotts and the goblins?

Wikipedia of course has a fine article Fictional universe of Harry Potter - Wikipedia , but it doesn’t address this question.

Gotta chime in on this one as well. We definately do not know this to be the case. One of the biggest plot holes in the series is just how LITTLE Harry knows about his parents, as well as how little he’s even asked anyone about them (in story, something else always comes up to cut such conversations short, but it seems implausible that Harry would go six years without trying to find out and refusing to be distracted).

We definately don’t know their professions.

I get the sense that basic subsistence living is pretty much not a problem for most wizards. The real valuables are the powerful enchantments that only a few talented or very specialized wizards can accomplish. While most Hogwarts students seem proficient in basic potion making, for instance, I doubt you’d trust a complex cure to anything other than a St. Mungo’s specialist.

In short, everyone seems to be:

  1. idle rich
  2. in government
  3. producing luxury items in shops
  4. part of the service industry

What’s missing? Anyone in agriculture or factory work. Seems plausible enough to me, given how easy it seems for wizards to acquire the basics.

No, James and Lily probably were NOT Aurors, although their professions are not specified anywhere in the books. If they had been Aurors, it’s almost inconceivable that Moody or McGonagall or Scrimgeour or Slughorn wouldn’t have mentioned it to Harry by now. He hasn’t made any secret of his ambitions, and plenty of the adults in his life would have been in a position to know if his parents were in the same profession he wants to go into.

The Longbottoms are identified as aurors in the memory of Bellatrix Lestrange’s trial. But we needn’t assume that everyone who fought the Death Eaters was an auror. Of the current Order of the Phoenix, only Tonks and Kingsley Shackleford are aurors.

I just might see if my library has that book-it might help me understand business a bit more.
The Longbottom’s were definitely Aurors, and Neville’s gran doesn’t let Nev forget it. Poor Neville also feels the Crucio curse from Bellatrix in book 5. I look for Neville to show some incredible growth in book 7-afterall, he also “qualified” for the prophecy, at least prior to Voldy marking Harry.

And that’s another thing: there were only 2 male wizards born in July of that year? How small is this world? Sure, the World Cup was huge, but that was international. Only ocassionally does Rowling say that HP doesn’t know a student-we’ve covered the size of Hogwarts elsewhere, but this just struck me. Even if you consider the qualifier for the prophecy (thrice defied the Dark Lord)–still only 2? No wonder they have to marry Muggles…
And what happened to Hagrid being Keeper of Keys, as well as the Grounds? I am mining for any and all clues for book 7. I also think that Ernie MacMillian will play a role-he got an awful lot of “lines” in book 5…
Off to work, with Muggles, unfortunately.

Well, this is Lord Voldemort we’re talking about. Surviving three battles with him would be extraordinarily difficult. Then you’ve got to have a child with another person who also survived three battles, and have the child born at the end of July.

In that Mugglenet/Leaky Cauldron interview that I keep linking to, JKR discusses this. IIRC, it’s just a title. Essentially, he lets people onto the grounds.