“We thank you for your patience. The cabin crew will shortly be serving coffee and biscuits again.”
Longer than you think, Dad! Longer than you think!
My shoulders are about 26" wide, and I just did a flight on southwest where the seats are only 17" wide. It was uncomfortable for me, I had to fold my shoulders forward. Luckily the woman next to me reclined her seat which helped, because then our shoulders didn’t overlap. I had no idea why those seats reclined 4", but that 4" really helps with shoulder room.
I didn’t care much, because the two cities I was traveling between I had driven between years before. I calculated it was 12x faster to fly than drive between the cities, so I didn’t mind being mildly uncomfortable during the flight (that doesn’t include things like check in, waiting for the plane, baggage claim, etc). Flying for the win, I’ve only done it a few times so it is still fun and beats the fuck out of driving.
what the fuck are you bitching about? it costs a shit-ton of money to buy airplanes, maintain them, and (especially) fuel them. And then airports charge you for the privilege of landing and taking off there. Airlines aren’t goddamned charities, they’re like any other business. they exist to make money. You want cheap airfare, you’re going to be crammed in with as many other people as the airline can fit into the plane.
it wasn’t that long ago that the term “jet set” was in common usage. “Jet set” referred to people who were wealthy enough to travel by air. you can’t have your goddamned cake and eat it too.
jesus christ, talk about #firstworldproblems.
this is why I like Louis CK, 'cos he had a bit along these lines. "I’m sitting on a chair in the sky, going 600 mph. but my shoulder is touching the guy next to me. this is like the worst thing EVER.
What? You can’t post a cite?
In the 1920s people probably said the same thing when people said they wished cars had radios, shocks and heating/cooling.
did cars in the 1920s cost a person the equivalent of $100 million to buy?
Flying is cheaper than in previous decades. And now, on many flights, you get a personal video screen, on which you can watch your choice of movies or television shows. On some flights (JetBlue, for instance), you can watch live TV. Even WiFi is widely accessible.
And if you want more comfort than in coach, there’s always the option of paying extra for a first- or business-class seat.
Spirit Air is much maligned, but they do offer better seats at a fairly small charge (something like $35 for the best one IIRC)…
I prefer not to tear my eyes out after travelling, thank you. 
I’m a stocky female at 5’9" and my shoulders are at least 21" across. Yikes. In that case, I’d *really *prefer to sit by my husband (25" across shoulders! and he isn’t fat), because we wouldn’t mind our arms mushing together.
I seem to remember a concept for plane seating a few years ago that had semi-standing seats (with perhaps a bike-type saddle to recline on). Did that ever become a thing anywhere?
Ever been to an event at the Forum in Inglewood, CA? DAYAMN, those seats have no space between them. You are constantly rubbing shoulders with the people on either side of you.
Now I’m very very happy that stretch seating is becoming more available. I get it when ever I can.
Really though I wish people would stop suggesting to just fly first class. Just did a comparison on the same flight from LA to NYC. First class costs 7x as much. Do people not understand how expensive First (often called Business) class is? Premium economy (I guess this is stretch seating) is over 3x as much for that flight (I hope this isn’t a trend. It’s usually not in the laughingly absurd price category)
I’ll be lambasted for the following idea. Especially by posters like even sven but how about this -
Raise the average cost 8%. Because of fuel savings, give everyone 10% more room. And have 10% less people crowding the aisles and bathrooms and have 10% more room for carry-ons. I think everyone would be happier. Sure 8% is a little bit more expensive, but a very little bit. At least it’s not 7x more expensive as some people suggest to just fly first class :rolleyes:
Where do you live that people call business class the same thing as first class? They’re not the same thing. On most flights, they are separate cabins, priced differently. (I have a theory that when companies prohibited employees from flying first class, the airlines developed business class so that people could still be more comfortable but not violate the rules.)
And yes, first class is really expensive. But few people there are paying the full price. Some flights have four classes of seats; first, business, coach/economy and economy plus, which has better seats with more legroom than coach. Usually economy plus is only a slight ($50-100) surcharge over economy. So if you’re one of the tall ones who is bothered by those in front reclining, pay for the upgrade. The rest of us, who aren’t bothered when the passenger in front reclines, can save a few dollars.
But why should I pay more for something I do not want and can not use?
The price of an airline ticket is not incidental. For me, it determines how often I see my family, how many friend’s weddings I am able to attend, and whether or not I am able to do things like meet my husband’s family. A 10% rise in ticket prices means a 10% reduction in my ability to travel-- and that’s a pretty deep cut for someone living far from her family. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s not nothing.
There are plenty of airlines to choose from. The day people start prioritizing space and service when choosing tickets, competition will begin on those aspects.
But people choose price. Every time. People want cheap tickets.
So why do you think other people should subsidize your desire for a premium product? Should I say McDonalds should stop selling hamburgers because I’d prefer to eat steak?
Live on Earth. First class is often called Business Class now, to get rid of ‘classism’
I’ll gladly pay an extra $50-100 for stretch seating. If I can get it. It’s getting way better, and is more available. My quotes were price points just to give people an idea of how expensive it really can be. I fly out of Denver. I’ve never seen four classes of seats. And only about half have first class at all (not that I would pay 7x as much for it).
Here is the seat map for a three-class Boeing 767-300. The map shows first- (called Global First) business- (called BusinessFirst) and economy-class cabins along with Economy Plus, which “is not a separate class of service but is standard economy with up to 5 inches of extra legroom. These seats are located nearer to the front of the aircraft and passengers in this section will be served first. Charges for these seats will depend on routing and may be purchased at the of booking or check-in.”
Seat pitch for economy plus is 34 inches, versus 31 inches in ecomony seats, along with five inches (instead of four inches) of recline. Both seats have 18 inches of width, however.
Note that rather than calling first class business class, they’re calling the business class seats “BusinessFirst”, perhaps just to up the “classism.”
This is true on large, three-cabin planes, like the ones that you generally get on international flights, and long domestic flights.
In American domestic air travel, however, a majority of planes (especially the most common mid-sized Airbus and Boeing jets) are two-cabin planes, and the section at the front is sometimes referred to interchangeably as First Class or Business Class, at least in casual conversation. The airlines themselves generally have an official name for the front (usually First Class, i believe), but i’ve heard plenty of American domestic travelers talk about that front cabin as Business Class.
And this is, really, an appropriate usage. The level of luxury and service in domestic First Class cabins is barely comparable to international Business Class, and it’s nowhere near the level of luxury and service that you get on a proper, international First Class flight.
yeah, I get it, you don’t care at all about leg room as long as you can tilt your seat back. You have an uncanny ability to not be able to walk a mile in another’s shoes.
[QUOTE=even sven]
The price of an airline ticket is not incidental. For me, it determines how often I see my family, how many friend’s weddings I am able to attend, and whether or not I am able to do things like meet my husband’s family. A 10% rise in ticket prices means a 10% reduction in my ability to travel-- and that’s a pretty deep cut for someone living far from her family. It’s not the end of the world, but it’s not nothing.
[/quote]
Great that you see your family. I only fly about twice a year. It would be nice to have a REASONABLE option to upgrade a little bit. It’s often not available. At all.
[QUOTE=even sven]
There are plenty of airlines to choose from. The day people start prioritizing space and service when choosing tickets, competition will begin on those aspects.
[/quote]
Yep, the almighty dollar. I’m just asking for a more reasonable choice. I may start a poll on the SDMB, never done it before.
[QUOTE=even sven]
But people choose price. Every time. People want cheap tickets.
[/quote]
I would like to choose a reasonable price for a reasonable amount of room. Hey, I’m only 6’3", and 210lbs. I manage in economy, but it’s not fun. My Wife is 5’1" and 115 lbs. And of course has no problem in economy. But she sees how difficult it is for me to not move my legs for 2+ hours. It sucks.
[QUOTE=even sven]
So why do you think other people should subsidize your desire for a premium product? Should I say McDonalds should stop selling hamburgers because I’d prefer to eat steak?
[/QUOTE]
Not at all. But McD’s should not be subsidized by making a steak cost me $400.
Hey, I really like that so many can travel cheaply. But my condition of being a tall regular guy is punished by the airlines by charging me up to 7 times the cost of a regular ticket to be reasonably comfortable. That’s fucked up IMHO.
Right, but as that page says:
International.
You would be very unlikely to come across that plane and that seat configuration on an American domestic flight. The overwhelming majority of domestic flights, in the US at least, are in two-cabin planes, and many travelers use the terms First and Business class interchangeably when talking about the front cabin on those planes.
Interesting idea.
if we gave the 10% entirely in seat pitch, that’d be an extra roughly 3". That would make the folks up to about (WAG) 6’2" happy, and give the even taller folks a less painful but still not-nice experience.
OTOH …
It’s tough to give extra width because the only way to do that is to narrow the aisle(s), then if that’s not sufficient, to remove a whole seat. Assuming the aisles are already as narrow as they can be, this leaves us with this:
For a typical 6-abreast narrowbody, the minimum increment of change is going from 6 seats to 5. This means each remaining seat can have 1/5th of a seat-width added, or about 20%. So if we’re going to only give 10% more total space, we need to cram the seats closer together fore-aft by about 10%, or 3". For short, fat folks that might be an improvement, but for normal-height up through tall folks that’d be a disaster.
For a 5-abreast airplane we’d be adding 25% to each seat width then having to subtract 15% or 4-5" from fore-aft space. Not gonna work.
Clearly on widebodies with 8-10 abreast already, you could remove a single seat from each row without having to close the fore-aft spacing much to retain the 10% net gain figure. But given that fore-aft spacing is already below many (most?) folk’s idea of minimum tolerable, any reduction is going to produce disproportionate complaining / whining.