Egyptian History: Were the Hebrews ever slaves?

[carnivorousplant]

@njtt

But only if you do it without ever mentioning his name. He likes a good joke, doesn’t He?

Apparently so, considering how many of us are comedians.

[Simplicio]

@qazwart

The big question is why would a group of people have as their origin story that they came from a distant land and were just a bunch of escaped slaves? Most origins of nations stories show that you were created there in the land you now inhabit, and therefore, have full rights and privileges. This is your land because you always had it.

The Romans traced their origin back to Troy, the classical Greeks believed they came from an invasion of the decedents of Hercules, the Irish believed they crossed the sea to take Ireland from its former fairy inhabitants, the Hebrews thought they came not only as slaves from Egypt but also as nomads from Ur. Just going by the origin myths I know off the top of my head, I actually think positing a foreign origin for your people is more popular then saying your people have always lived in your current location.

I suspect the reason is that most cultures are aware from finding ruins and strange writings that their culture isn’t the first one to inhabit their present homeland, so they come up with a story where they crush the former inhabitants and justify their current occupation of the land.

[Uncertain]

@Sage_Rat

Stories of specific territories that were captured by the Israelites seem to assume that there were people inhabiting the region at that time (600BCEish) and so the Israelite people must have fought them

I’m not sure what you’re saying happened around 600. Not the wars of conquest, which would have happened many certuries earlier. Is that when the relevant biblical passages were written?

[Sage_Rat]

@Uncertain

I’m not sure what you’re saying happened around 600. Not the wars of conquest, which would have happened many certuries earlier. Is that when the relevant biblical passages were written?

Yes, Exodus and Deuteronomy were probably written around 600BCE, plus or minus a century.

The exodus itself was supposed to have occurred sometime previous to 1200BCE, if I recall correctly.

[Simplicio]

@Simplicio

I actually think positing a foreign origin for your people is more popular then saying your people have always lived in your current location.

And thinking about it some more, connecting yourself to Egypt also seems to be a common theme for nearby cultures. The Greeks claimed their culture and sciences came originally from Egypt, the Gypsies claimed to have originated there, the Gospels have the young Jesus take a somewhat random trip there in his early life, even, somewhat bizarrely, the medieval Scots traced their heritage to Egypt.

The ancient Egyptians, of course, didn’t think they came from Egypt, but from elsewhere as well.

[Sage_Rat]

A book which covers a lot of this, on Google Books.

[Captain_Amazing]

@Nava

Ah, the Basque one? Who is Chaho?

I have no idea who that is, but don’t assume a Basque story is invented unless its writer says it is, several “old wives tales” that had been getting discounted by the “serious” historians have been proved to match archaeological data a lot better than the “serious historians’” assumptions. My source for the Basque story is Basque filologists and folklorists (who are indeed XIX century).

Chaho is Joseph-Augustin Chaho/Agosti Xaho, a French Basque writer. One of his books was “The Legend of Aitor”, in which he took the Basque term “Aitor semea”, and translated it into “the son of Aitor”, and created the idea of Aitor, the father of the Basques, and his seven sons, each of which became the founder of one of the Basque provinces.

[Apollyon]

@monavis

The Exodus story doesn’t mention the name of the Pharoh…suspected that Ramses the 2d…

Ramses the 2d? Did he only appear in paintings?

…and why the Israelites would have stayed in the desert for 40 years…

Moses wouldn’t stop and ask for directions.

Thank you… don’t forget to tip your waitress…

[monavis]

@Apollyon

Ramses the 2d? Did he only appear in paintings?
Moses wouldn’t stop and ask for directions.

Thank you… don’t forget to tip your waitress…

Ramses the 2d, mummy is on display and he has a very prominent nose.

I like your sense of humor!! Can’t tip the waitress service wasn’t that good…sorry!!

[even_sven]

@Simplicio

And thinking about it some more, connecting yourself to Egypt also seems to be a common theme for nearby cultures.

Not just them! The Bassa in Cameroon (and any number of West/Central African ethnic groups) also claim Egyptian heritage. I chalk it up to Egypt being the last time an African culture got any respect.

[sqweels]

@carnivorousplant

Apparently so, considering how many of us are comedians.

I especially liked the scene where you stoned the guy for saying “Jehova”.

[carnivorousplant]

@sqweels

I especially liked the scene where you stoned the guy for saying “Jehova”.

I’ll need a cite on that one; my Hebrew is lousy.

[zev_steinhardt]

@bri1600bv

A big part of Judaism and Christianity is the exile from Egypt, etc, where God saved his Chosen people from slavery (why did he allow them to be slaves, not sure) and brought them to the promised land.

What do Egyptians have to say about this? Did they have slaves? Did they have any history of the first born males being killed, rivers of blood (plagues) etc? Not an attempted slam at Jewish history, just curious.

Of course it’s real. Do you think I clean my house for Passover and eat all that matzah and marror for nothing?

Zev Steinhardt