Eight Weeks Pregnant with a Cloned Human

[Illuvatar]

You can find the article here…

http://www.gulfnews.com/Articles/news.asp?ArticleID=46275

Is the embryo a clone of the mother (or is it from another genetic donor), can anyone find any more information on this??

What does the Catholic Church say about this (if they choose to comment), right to life or terminate due to abomination?

[Lsura]

*Originally posted by Illuvatar *
**What does the Catholic Church say about this (if they choose to comment), right to life or terminate due to abomination? **

You can find a discussion of cloning and catholic ethics here. Basically, the Catholic church is opposed to cloning, with or without the termination aspect, but this article (and others it links to) go into much more detail about whys.

[Illuvatar]

Hey that’s a really short article with some really dodgy links…

[Completely off topic but is found through your link]

Another concern of the 1987 Vatican Instruction with human cloning is that it takes reproduction out of the context of human sexuality. A human being may be brought into this world totally independently of the sexual intimacy of a loving, committed couple.

So what’s wrong with aborting an unloved embryo from a rape for example?
[/Completely off topic but is found through your link]

And that link and subsequent links do not state the Catholics position on what to do with a cloned embryo, they mearly state that the act of creating it is wrong. So is it ok after it is created and not during?

Still looking for info on the genetic parent…

[cagiva650]

Scientist Antinori calls himself the “father of the impossible children”

I do not support these infertile couples and what they are trying to do. I have all sorts of biased opinions about the lengths childless couples will go to in order to procreate.

Too bad that unwanted rape inspired embryo cannot be transplanted to a childless couple.

But in a lot of cases we humans are so sure of our own genetic superiority that we have to submit our progeny to the cold sterile probes of the experimenting zealots of science - Meanwhile, millions of the worlds children are in misery day in and day out.

In addition to the catholic church’s stance Why not have other religions chime in too (if they want to)?

[Llama_Llogophile]

*Originally posted by Illuvatar *
**Another concern of the 1987 Vatican Instruction with human cloning is that it takes reproduction out of the context of human sexuality. **

Interesting. I seem to recall the Catholic church’s belief in a fairly well publicized virgin birth.

Apparently the mother involved is revered for her lack of, um, “participation” in the events leading up the the event. They don’t seem to mind taking reproduction out of the context of human sexuality there…

[tomndebb]

What does the Catholic Church say about this (if they choose to comment), right to life or terminate due to abomination?

The CC will probably condemn the cloning, based on the reasons mentioned above. The CC position is that procreation is the natural result of the expression of love between two people and bypassing that process is not a good thing.

However, the CC will also state that the child so conceived is innocent of the action resulting in its conception, and should not, therefore, be harmed or punished for the actions of its parent(s).
From this second position will spring the opposition to abortion in the case of rape and to abortion in the case of cloning.

[capacitor]

From cagiva650:

But in a lot of cases we humans are so sure of our own genetic superiority that we have to submit our progeny to the cold sterile probes of the experimenting zealots of science - Meanwhile, millions of the worlds children are in misery day in and day out.

This is probably one of the best arguments against cloning.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

The Catholic Church can’t condemn a cloning until there’s actually been a cloning.

My Urban Legend alarms all just went off, as soon as I read this:

But Dr Antinori, a director of an Infertility unit at the International Centre for the Study of Physiopathology of Human Reproduction in Rome, refused to reveal the country from which the woman comes.

This just suspends all credibility, in my book. I mean, he’s made this huge, unbelievable breakthrough, and he’s not going to *tell * anybody who she is?

[enable Extreme Sarcasm Mode]

Yeah, right, because that would mean he’d get all kinds of horrible publicity for his program, and corporate sponsors might start rushing in to offer him money, and he might get to be, like, totally famous, and be on CNN and Barbara Walters and Time and Newsweek and Rolling Stone and that would be just ghastly, wouldn’t it? Just think of the media firestorm, the circus, the whoopin’ and a-hollerin’, and the carryin’ on, that would take place.

No, no, much better to preserve a tactful silence.

:rolleyes:

[end Extreme Sarcasm Mode]

I will believe it, literally, when I see it.

[sailor]

I heard on TV news that it is all very suspect and the guy has a reputation for seeking attention.

Wasn’t there also recently in Italy some case of some impossible pregnancy which turned out to be just a publicity stunt?

[Illuvatar]

This just suspends all credibility, in my book. I mean, he’s made this huge, unbelievable breakthrough, and he’s not going to tell anybody who she is?

I wouldn’t tell anyone if I came from a country which would fine me millions of dollars and throw me in jail for decades. I’d wait till the child was born safely and then turn up in a country without extradiction treaties.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

And I remember having this discussion before, not too long ago. Remember this, from last November?

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/11/25/human.embryo.clone/

Human embryo created through cloning
November 26, 2001 Posted: 12:33 PM EST (1733 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) – Scientists at a technology company said Sunday they have created human embryos through cloning, drawing criticism from President Bush and lawmakers and raising new ethical questions.

Advanced Cell Technology Inc. of Worcester, Massachusetts, said the experiment was aimed not at creating a human being but at mining the embryo for stem cells used to treat disease.

< snip >

In the study, published in the online Journal of Regenerative Medicine, scientists removed the DNA from human egg cells and replaced it with DNA from a human body cell. The egg cells began to develop “to an embryonic state,” according to a press release from the company.

Of the eight eggs, two divided to form early embryos of four cells and one progressed to a six-cell stage before it stopped dividing.

< snip >

Though he described the advance as a “very primitive development,” the director of the Center for Bioethics at the University of Pennsylvania deemed it a “significant” one.

And then there’s this.

Earlier this year, Italian fertility doctor Severino Antinori and U.S. researcher Panos Zavos announced plans to clone humans. They said hundreds of couples had volunteered for controversial procedure.

So, it’s been barely six months, and in that short space of time evidently Antinori single-handedly has somehow solved the problems, whatever they were, that made the cells stop dividing after the six cell stage? Big question: Why haven’t we heard about this in the news? “Italian Maverick Fertility Doctor Scoops American Researchers”? He isn’t a researcher, he just runs a fertility clinic. How would he have the training and the facilities to do this kind of research? Not to mention the time…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1477000/1477698.stm

And he has successfully implanted the resulting embryo into a woman? IVF is notorious for having low success rates–it can takes months of ovulating and implanting to get an embryo to implant.

Nah, it’s not time to panic about the “Attack of the Clones” just yet.

May 16, 2002. Then you can panic.

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

I wouldn’t tell anyone if I came from a country which would fine me millions of dollars and throw me in jail for decades.

Italy has not threatened to “fine him millions of dollars and throw him in jail for decades”. They have only threatened to take away his license to practice medicine in Italy.

From the CNN.com link:

The announcement was criticized by officials in several countries, and Italian authorities threatened to ban Antinori from practicing medicine if he goes ahead with the experiment.

He himself is not banned from Italy. From your link:

But Dr Antinori, a director of an Infertility unit at the International Centre for the Study of Physiopathology of Human Reproduction in Rome…

He runs a fertility clinic in Rome.

Only his human cloning project has been banned from Italy. There are plenty of other countries where he can do his human cloning project with impunity. The Italian authorities aren’t going to send an international strike force after him to drag his butt back to Rome and throw it in jail.

He could quite easily have a press conference and announce who this woman was.

[cagiva650]

*Originally posted by Duck Duck Goose *
**

He could quite easily have a press conference and announce who this woman was. **

Aha but what if revealing this woman’s identity would get the good doktor in further trouble? I can’t imagine any sane childless couple leaving their infert spec and seeking out Dr Antinori. I shudder to think of it but what if his clone carrier is mentally retarded or a possible slave of sorts!

Maybe he’s is bluffing totally, but to ask what exactly is he doing in his lab - I’m sure enquiring minds would like to know!

[Duck_Duck_Goose]

Me, to say that evidently I’m not the only skeptic. “Show us the baby.”

http://www.cnn.com/2002/HEALTH/04/09/cloning.pregnancy.reut/index.html

Cloning pregnancy: Fact or fiction?
April 9, 2002 Posted: 10:32 AM EDT (1432 GMT)

LONDON (Reuters)

Scepticism…[about] his refusal to give any details.

< snip >

When scientists created Dolly the sheep, the world’s first cloned mammal, their research was reviewed by other experts and published in a respected scientific journal.

So why if Italian fertility expert Severino Antinori has managed to achieve a pregnancy as a result of human cloning has he refused to confirm or deny the media reports or to clarify exactly what he said?

“If anybody was doing this on a reputable basis they would be putting it into a refereed journal so that people would actually know what was done rather than what could simply be claims to attract publicity,” said Dr. Harry Griffin of the Roslin Institute in Scotland where Dolly was created.

Yes. Also there’s this very excellent point:

“Our project is at a very advanced stage. One woman among the thousands of infertile couples in the program is eight weeks pregnant,” Gulf News, an English-language newspaper in the United Arab Emirates, reported Antinori as saying last week.

But it was unclear if he had specifically stated that the pregnancy resulted from cloning and he has subsequently refused to clarify his remark or provide information about the woman or the procedure.

So.

[LateComer]

I thought I was going to read about somebody having twins!