Elbows, Come on down and finish this off. (weird guy at gym thread)

The BBQ Pit
41

Sorry, my bad. A thousand apologies.

I wasn’t asking for the guy to be hung, shamed, accused, or banned, (for like the 10th time now!), only that anyone with a creepy feeling, about such interactions, has the right to speak up.

I explained about spidey sense only so people would understand that life experiences can make spidey sense a powerful thing for women. Getting groped is not an unusual experience for young women, in my experience. Your experience may be different. However, I am not pitting you, condemning you, or calling you names for having an opinion that differs from mine.

All I expressed was, that if it was me, I would speak up, and why. How that manages to impugn the character of all men, I’m not really sure.

I think it’s telling that no one has addressed this;

"But I’m sure you’re advising all your tweenagers to over ride their own spidey sense, about the guy they are about to climb into an elevator with, rather than err on the side of caution. Because to do otherwise is to slur all men in your eyes.

Ditto, when your own spidey sense pings over the undo attention your 6yr old is garnering from that preteen boy at the playground. After all, he’s not actually done anything, you’ve just got an uncomfortable feeling. Of course, you’ll just leave them together until ‘something’ actually happens.

Or is it okay for you to do it when it’s yours you’re protecting, but not okay for women, who’ve had actual life experience to go on?"

42

I agree with you about men in elevators. They are just creepy, and should also be lynched.

43

I’m not especially interested in weighing in on the bigger issues of groping and assault that are being discussed here, but i must say that the whole shoulder-bumping thing, if he’s doing it to people that he doesn’t know, is just fucking weird.

If some guy at my gym made a habit of bumping shoulders with me when we passed, i’d let it go for the first couple of times in case it was accidental, but after that, i’d say something like, “Hey mate, is there any reason that you can’t avoid me every time we pass one another?”

I’m not someone who gets particularly claustrophobic or possessive of his personal space, but you shouldn’t go around in public places touching people that you don’t know, unless it’s an unavoidable situation like standing on a crowded subway car.

44 

             ________________________
            | This post has been     |
            | groped                 |
        ////| by The Gropist         |\\\\
       |!!| |________________________||!!|
       |   -'/                     \`-'  |
        \___/                       \___/_
        )   |                        \   (
45

Nice!

46

Don’t think a 12yr old getting into a enclosed space, alone with any man, should ever, ever consider safety an issue?

I hate to tell you but it kind of goes contrary to what everyone teaches their kids, including schools and grandparents.

But I’m sure you’re right. Better a tween gets groped than any man ever feel slighted that a girl wouldn’t get into an elevator with him.

47

I thought you had been banned…

48

I’m with you. There was speculation that perhaps they all knew one another, were playing a game, or some other reason for the bumping. The OP didn’t indicate that they were certain that the people he was interacting with were strangers to him.

49

I got better

50

What’s like seeing the world in black and white? Are the old timey movies in color for you or is the resolution just better nowadays?

There is ground between “blindly trust everyone” and “assume everyone is out to diddle you at all times”. Most of us live in that world. That is the entire point of teaching situational awareness and your much vaunted “spidey-sense”. The whole point is to teach children to evaluate the risk and make an assessment based on their observations. It isn’t a long process of thought we do it all the time in split seconds. If THAT man gives you the creeps don’t get in the elevator with him. Not “ALL men are opportunistic creeps so NEVER get into a confined space with one.”

51

I wouldn’t want to ride in an elevator alone with a tween. WTF are we going to talk about?

“So like, have you seen all the *Twilight *movies?”

“Uh-- no, haven’t seen any of them. Do you watch Breaking Bad?”

“No. I think my dad does.”

“Ah.”
*
<long period of awkward silence>*

52

Elbows, how old are you? Just curious.

53

what for? she pegs your demographic spidey sense?

54

I don’t really have a dog in the fight about the other thread- truthfully, I still haven’t read beyond the OP because it did seem a bit silly to me.

That said, I find this discussion about women getting or not getting groped is an interesting one. I consider Miss ** Nashiitashii** a friend :slight_smile: and I really do find it surprising that, being the hot chick she is, she’s never once been felt up by a dude when she wasn’t wanting it. Why is that surprising to me? Because I can list off, without hesitation, at least a dozen instances where strange men have followed me through stores and to my car, grabbed a tit, grabbed my ass, stuck their hand up my skirt or down my shirt, pushed me against a wall, kissed me against my will, or been otherwise physically inappropriate and imposing toward me (not all those things at once, of course- those are all individual weird things).

Now, let me be clear about two things: I don’t think I’m some goddess among men (far from it) and I also don’t think that ** Nashiitashii** is lying at all. In fact, I’ve been giving some serious thought to why our experiences are so darned different. And, I think I’ve got it. If I remember correctly, ** Nashiitashii** is a taller lady and I think that might be the difference. I’d imagine the creepers out there are less likely to mess with a woman who is more physically imposing (she’s closer to 5’10 or so, right?) than somebody like me, who is 5’4’’ on a tall day. I vaguely remember a thread about this before where someone posted some study about how female victims of attack get attacked more (or less) based on how they carry themselves and their stature. So, just my $.02.

And despite my experiences, I want to say that I far from view all men as crazed rapists. I like men- a lot. I go to clubs and bars despite my bad interactions I’ve had in the past because, overall, I have more fun than displeasure. But I do accept that my reality is one where strange men think it’s ok at the bar to try to feel me up. I think those of you who haven’t experienced this don’t quite get what Elbows is saying. It’s not that we view all men as potential attackers- treating all men like they have bad, evil intentions. Rather, women who have this as their reality instead just have to be hyper aware of what’s going on around them. I can tell you that the few times I’ve had guys do weird shit like follow me to my car— I usually don’t notice until toward the end because I was spacing out. No doubt, a little glaring “NO MEANS NO” eye contact earlier in the interaction probably would have nipped it in the bud, but yeah. Things like that have taught me just to be hyper aware. Yes, if I’m alone in an elevator with a guy and he stands really close to me despite the empty elevator, my spidey senses tingle a bit and I get into my hyper aware state- just in case. If I’m alone in my office with a male client and he stands up and moves like he’s going to come walk behind my desk, I get hyper aware again.

These aren’t irrational man hating things- like I said, I don’t hate men at all. This is just me attempting to be reasonable based on my life experiences. I would never, ever live my life in horrific fear of half the population (that’s insanity), but I will do my best to be aware of what’s going on around me so I can minimize harms as much as possible.
Wow, that was a lot. Cool story, bra. Etc etc. Oh and fwiw: I’m 25. I’ve had these problems with men groping me since I was about 13 years old.

55

No need to bring the church into this.

56

Her attitude just seems a little “old fashioned” to me, and not that of a younger woman.

57

Yeah, because that’s what I was saying.:rolleyes:

It’s not me who sees things as black and white here.

Speaking up, in this instance, may have resulted in no more than the owner saying, “Yeah, he gives off a funny vibe, but I’ve watched him, and I’m pretty certain he’s just socially inept” or even something similar, only a couple of weeks later.

I’m not quite sure why my age has anything to do with this, would you like to know the colour of my skin too? How much money I make? Whether I support gay marriage? If I’m an immigrant?

(5’2", 100lbs soaking wet, this is for Diosa)

58

Since we’re anecdoting all up in this bitch ;), I just asked a few friends:

6 ft tall – she hasn’t had any guys grab her in public or anything like that.

5’11-- nothing

5’1-- similar experience to mine, grabbed a lot her entire life.

5’7-- hoots and hollers, a few grabbings but “nothing excessive” (how sad is it that any qualifies as anything other than totally unacceptable?)

5’3-- Lots of grabbing, had a guy try to literally stick his finger up her panties in a club recently (says she was dancing with friends, he came up behind her and immediately his hand went up her dress).

All of those women are between 24-28, btw. All are pretty girls, some more so than others, but the “hotness” distribution is all over.

Interesting theory. Somebody needs to get all science on this. :stuck_out_tongue:

59

White, middle class, native born, over 50, support gay marriage.

Right?

60

My spidey sense would certainly be pinged if I were 15-20 yrs old and some 30ish guy shoulder bumped me in the gym. Even now it would make me uncomfortable. That’s strange behavior on its own. Even moreso when considering the teen girl/ older guy dynamic.

Diosa’s post really rings true to me. When reading this thread, I was surprised to read that some women were never groped. I just assumed most women would have been groped at least once since it has happened to me more than once. I dress fairly conservatively and tend to mind my own business so I don’t understand. As I was reading the thread I considered the possibility that I’m small, then disregarded it. Now, here, Diosa is saying that there was a study showing that small women tend to be targeted. Very interesting. I also want to say that I had more issues when I was a teen than when I was in my 20’s even though I think I was much more attractive when I got older.