From Many of our Red-State Friends will gleefully go from calling Hillary a carper-bagger to calling here a Yankee if she gets the nod. She’s really from Chicago, anyway–not exactly Red State-city. And, being from the Northeast doesn’t hurt your chances that much if you’re Republican.
Something involving shackles, a billy club, and a John Holmes Superspecial with the extra-large knobs and multi-band bidirectional rotary action, sans lube.
Oh, and a skinning knife.
Endeavor, as always, not to fall prey to cynicism.
Let’s see… you agreed with my OP and I agree with at least some of what you have posted. Politics, bed-fellows, strangeness, etc.
I can’t decide if Rudy is perhaps the one GOP nominee that could give Obama or Hillary that “chance in hell” that my OP said they don’t have, or if Hillary or Obama are the Democratic nominees that could give Rudy an actual chance of winning. Maybe both are true.
Some people just like to whine. Hint hint.
So what is it you’re actually saying should be done differently? Vote for anybody except Hillary and Obama? That’s not quite a strategy. If they’re the people the party likes best, why shouldn’t they get the nod? If you’re that worried about it, go join a campaign and quit whining on the Internet. The “don’t vote for them because somebody won’t vote for a woman/black man” is a bunch of cowardly bullshit. You think the people you’re so intent on beating are worry about which Republican you might like the most?
Other than the fact that people really are showing an unusual level of interest in the Presidential election, given how early it is, I agree with this 100%.
The only GOP candidate or potential candidate that even has a chance is Giuliani, and it’s hard to see him doing that well, once his handlers actually have to let him answer questions in open fora. And has anyone been to the Rudy '08 site and seen the thinness of his policy positions? Rudy makes posters like Starving Artist look like deep political thinkers and serious policy wonks.
McCain? Old, out of it, sold out everything he supposedly stood for in 2000. And people actually see it now.
Romney? Mormons love him, but he lost everyone else with the flipflopping.
Fred Thompson? The base’s Bob Dole.
The Dems are learning from the failures of recent years, and the result was their rather substantial victory of 2006. Their one major candidate who could blow it is Clinton, who’s still stuck in a 1995 mindset. But I think the party’s strength down-ticket and the GOP’s weakness will carry even her to victory if she wins the nomination. But if the Dems nominate Obama or Edwards, we win without sweating it.
As much as it depresses me, I agree with the OP.
There’s a lot riding on the next election. It is very important that we get some new direction. As far as I’m concerned anyone running as a Republican is basically dead to me. Even if the Republican nominee has a position I can live with, there are so many influential nutjobs in that party right now that I don’t think I’d feel comfortable voting for them. This means I’m counting on the Democrats to produce the next president.
I think Obama is more electable than Clinton when you look at cross-over appeal, but I have a feeling Clinton will end up being the Democratic nominee. And if that happens, it will be bad. Very bad. Ralph Nader has a better chance of becoming president than she does. I don’t care how much money she raised. Not only does she have to work against sexism, but she also is not charismatic enough. She tries to play both sides, just like McCain. She pisses too many people off, even ones that should be sympathetic to her. She is just not a strong contender.
You’re right about Hillary, but I think you’re wrong about Obama. The thing about the Christian Right is how tribal it is. But Obama has the capacity to get inside their lizard-brains and convince them that he’s one of their tribe, because in a way, he’s more one of them than the increasingly elderly Dobsons and Robertsons who purport to be their leaders.
If Obama gets the nomination, a majority of evangelicals will still vote GOP, but it won’t be nearly as big a majority as usual. You heard it here first.
Very stirring. If you were talking about breaking the color barrier in baseball or sending the first female into space I’d be right there with you. But this is serious, down-and-dirty Realpolik. There is no room for politeness or political correctness. The Dems need to nominate someone who can win, period.
Is part of the reason Hillary can’t win that she is female? Yes. Is part of the reason Obama can’t win that he is black? Yes. Those realities suck, things shouldn’t be that way, things are unfair, and I wish I lived in a time and place where gender/race didn’t matter, but they do matter.
You said (sarcastically): “Oh sure, a woman will be president someday, but that day’s not today, so why bother trying?”
Yes. Precisely. Do not bother trying. Sounds harsh doesn’t it? Too fucking bad. The stakes are THAT high. The object should not be to nominate a good role model for women and minorities, the object should be to nominate someone who can win.
Under the right circumstances, minorities and women will be elected to the highest office. Unfortunately, we are not currently enjoying those circumstances.
You’re starting to make Obama sound like Cyrus. 
“Can you count, suckas? I say the future is ours…if you can count! Now, look what we have here before us. We got the Big City Liberals sitting next to the Good Ol’ Boys. We’ve got the Rainbow Boys right by the Westboro Baptist Church. Nobody is wasting nobody. That…is a miracle. And miracles is the way things ought to be. CAN YOU DIG IT?!”
You think your political party is much more important than it is, and as bad as things are, I think you’re being overdramatic.
I truly wish I could believe otherwise, hell I want it to be otherwise; we aren’t there yet. What we’ll see will be similar to the Homophobe vote that turned out in 2004, except this time it’ll be the racists, though some will just say he’s “inexperienced”.
Because people *will *give money to the campaign of an inexperienced black man. Because people have hopes and dreams and they will put money behind those hopes and dreams.
Further, people will say that they will vote for an inexperienced black man; they might even really mean it and these intentions will show up in polls. On election day, in privacy, a different poll is taken. People make decisions that needn’t ever be revealed to anyone. Would people actually vote not with their minds or their hearts but with primitive, illogical, gut-level motivations instead? Motivations that these voters wouldn’t or couldn’t reveal to anyone else–even themselves?
The answer to that is: is there still racism and sexism in America?
I disagree. The problem isn’t that Hillary and Obama are running. They should run. The problem is that no one else is running for the Dems. No one who has a chance to get the nomination, that is (and I include Edwards in that brush stroke).
IMHO, it would be kind of foolish to think that if we wait long enough, those circumstances will surely come around someday. I see no reason to believe that the stakes won’t be “that high” anytime in the future.
Really, I understand what you’re saying (there’s still part of me that agrees with you). But if our focus is simply nominating “someone who can win”, then we’re losing sight of what we’re actually needing to accomplish.
LilShieste
Off-topic, but I’ve heard various indicating that Jesse Jackson often makes a fool of himself, but the Wikipedia article seems to show him in a pretty good light without any mention of anything particularly outlandish (besides some anti-Jewish stuff.)
What all did he do that got him cast onto the joke pile? I’m old enough to be in the know, but seem to have missed this particular line of popular culture.
I thought about responding to your post piece by piece, but it really just boils down to this. Why are the stakes that high? If this was 2004, I’d agree with you. But Bush is leaving in 2008, and even though Giuliani may be crazy and the other Republicans are no great shakes, I don’t think any of them could top Bush, or would want to. What’s so goddamn important about this election that the Democrats have to win? I don’t see this election as anywhere near as critical as the last one was.
As for the rest of your post, it’s a load of stinking bullshit, for the simple reason that a black person can never be elected President if none ever run. Even if Obama doesn’t win, the more it happens and the more it’s accepted, until skin color doesn’t matter. That can’t happen if nobody takes the first step, because it’s “not the right time.” When the hell is the right time?
here’s the thing, though. We’re way early in the race. To my recollection, when Bill started winning primaries, I remember thinking ‘who the hell is he?’ While impressive money’s stacking up, I won’t be surprised if none of the current front runners on either side take the actual nomination.
Unfrotunately, racism and sexism will always exist in America. But that’s no reason to disqualify a non-white man, or a woman from a presidential nomination.
We need to stop dignifying a lot of these claims of “inexperienced” with debate. I think that one of the reasons the “issue” keeps coming up is because his own party can’t get past it.
LilShieste