Well, the stated reason for this site and/or this board to exist is to “fight ignorance”. Anyone who argues like TheFonz does is arguing purely out of a set of fixed beliefs. In The Fonz’s case there is also an added element of arrogance and pride in his alleged knowledge.
There is no added value in letting his arguments standing uncontested; there might however be the possibility of showing him what it means to substantiate your ideas and opinions.
Interestingly, under TheFonz’s belief system, fighting ignorance is immoral. It makes one wonder what exactly he’s trying to accomplish at all, really.
Nothing really, because I’m guilty of pride. I’m proud that I was able to figure out so much right here before the end. I know that my actions are of little consequence because there is nothing you or anyone can do with what you MAY learn from me. Chances are you’ll just snub what it is I say anyways. That one “attaboy” counteracts all the “your stupids” because I KNOW that one guy sees what it is I’m talking about. Everyone elses opinion does not matter because I know they haven’t seen it yet.
It’s my little way of finding comfort in a world that instantly became devoid of it the moment I realized what is going on.
Absolutely, otherwise I wouldn’t be here presenting what I’ve learned. I can only explain so much, because they’re just words and words are meaningless if the person reading them cannot envision what is going on. I try to use words like spin, flow, lift, zap, and crush because these are the words that come to mind when I imagine these events taking place. I try to use as many pictures as possible, good ones, that are related to what I’m talking about:
Mars was very much like the Earth and had a magnetic field and rotation like our planet. What gives rise to our magnetic field is charged particles escaping out of our north pole. When Venus flew by Mars, this is where the charged particles most easily escaped from, and so this is why that is where the most damage is.
You can see how the elevation of the northern hemisphere is 3000 feet below the average, and is surprisingly smooth. The southern hemisphere is 3000 feet above the average for the planet, and has craters all over the place. This is because the majority of the energy was escaping out of the north pole (due to the rotation of the planet and its magnetic field) so not a lot of soil was lifted off the planet there. Many many lightning strikes took place instead, forming all the craters.
Look at the equator, and you can see a straight line (just east of the massive mountains that form a triangle). This is the Valles Marineris, a large scar on the face of the planet.
A few years ago. I first found out that a massive economic depression was going to hit the United States, and this got me wondering how our country could handle such a devastating blow. There are far too many people with guns, ghetto-people. There is way too unhealthiness, so what would happen to these people when they begin eating far less than they normally do? They would most surely break out with horrible diseases.
The world has way too many people. What would happen to them if our climate changed and we weren’t able to grow nearly as much food as before? I heard our very own country’s wheat harvest is barely half of what it was last year. This cannot be good.
And finally, the hurricanes of last year got me started on finding out about the electric universe theory. After I started reading up on that and how it tied in with ancient mythology, it was only a short hop away from tying it in with religion, our electric souls, and creation.
Maybe a little arrogance, but mainly it’s me trying to explain these images as best as possible. I know that in their old age, people lose the ability to grasp new ideas and use their imaginations to “see” them. I try to use simple, cut-to-chase speech to explain many of my ideas and sometimes it comes out sounding like I’m an asshole. It sucks, because then this also cuts off the dialogue and any chance of me getting my message through to you.
Dopers are used to more precise terminology. If you want to convince us, using scientific terminology is the way to go.
I’m surprised. I assumed you were expecting a disaster on a planetary scale.
Ghetto-people? What exactly does that mean?
Last I heard, population was six billion and climbing. The planet is expected to max out at between 11 and 12 billion before falling back to a steady and sustainable 9 billion.
And finally, the hurricanes of last year got me started on finding out about the electric universe theory. After I started reading up on that and how it tied in with ancient mythology, it was only a short hop away from tying it in with religion, our electric souls, and creation.
That last remark was unnecessary. Dopers are of all ages. I’m 31.
Again, precise scientific terms are the best way.
By The Way
Let me see if I understand you-
The solar system is much younger than the current consensus
A series of catastrophies and collisions shaped the planets
The asteroid used to be a planet.
Jesus, and various other religious figures such as Zeus, were actually aliens from that planet.
The aliens wanted to impart some lesson that we missed.
Curently, a military/industrial/corporate conspiracy conceals knowledge of the aliens, true history, and the electrical nature of the sun and our souls.
Extrapolating from that, I think you predict
That the conspiracies tampering with oil will cause a massive depression.
People will starve. Disease will run rampant.
The tampering will so unbalance the earth’s electrical field as to destroy human souls.
Am I close?
That should be “the asteroid belt used to be a planet.”
Wait! lightsning strikes cause craters that look like meteorite craters? can you support this claim with evidence?
Electric wind in the lab:http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/051108radial.jpg
And on Mars:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/051108tyrrhena.jpg
Electric craters in the lab (tiny raised bumps in the middle):
And on Mars:
Olympus Mons and experiment:
Lightning rille on the Earth:
and on the Moon:
TheFonz, it is clear that you have arrived at a set of beliefs that are internally consistent to you, and give meaning to your life. I, personally, do not find your arguments compelling, and I would imagine that you would agree that our arguments have not caused you to change your mind. I don’t think that this necessarily means that we can’t learn some things about the way the ‘other side’ thinks.
I do not, today, believe in the Electric Universe model. However, I can imagine circumstances under which I would change my mind: if the theory could be fleshed out with math, or make testable predictions, or could be used to produce effects that are not allowed by current theories. While I am not convinced by the photographs that you have posted, I don’t think that I am unconvinceable.
I am curious as to whether you would say the same. As a thought experiment, is there any evidence that we could present to you that would cause you to change your mind? Or are there any predictions that you would make that, should they fail to come to pass, would persuade you to reject your current world-view? Say, for instance, that the US does not experience an economic depression in the next twenty years, or that there are no mass uprisings of armed urban poor over the same span, or that the craters on Mars could be shown to have been caused by meteorites rather than lightning (one would have to define the parameters ahead of time: does one riot in one city count? define depression, etc.) (I pick these predictions at random; I don’t know if they are central to your world-view or not.)
I don’t think that counts against you if you say that there is no evidence that can lead you to abandon your current beliefs - it simply puts them into the realm of faith. I don’t deny the power and value of faith, but I think that they are very personalized experiences that don’t really lend themselves to debate: either you believe or you don’t, and I don’t think that argument works to change someone from one state to another. I don’t think that my belief in the current physics world-model rises to the level of faith; I think that I would accept a new theory if it were presented in a certain way and supported in certain other ways.
What do you think?
He had to mention the moon…
I was not going to reply anymore, seeing the non-reply reply Angua’s post got, but others have to know how weak, misleading and unattributed TheFonz’s evidence is here:
Evidence still confirms that volcanic activity caused that and not an electrical anode! One has to consider that the anode needs to be close to the target and blasting for a while to create a feature that only approaches the look of Olympus Mons, and if we assume the electrical charge to come from farther away, it is important to realize that the charge or lightning bolt still needed to remain in the same position for a while, that is unlikely considering that according to his theories another planet passing by (those suckers move fast!) was the “likely” cause.
Contrary to what the Thunderbolts site says (and this is another time I see TheFonz posting images without mentioning the source) their reasons to say volcanic activity is not what we see here are silly:
Well, no shit on the point that volcanos on Mars have differences with the ones on Earth! Larger eruption rates and lower gravity have already been mentioned before by researchers as the reason for that. And even more recent evidence shows volcanic activity related to those “looking like electrical scars” features on Mars:
Wrong again: The “Electrical” rille on the moon has a clear crater where the flow of lava originated, in this site one can see that and a similar volcanic crater and lava channel near Craters of the Moon National Monument in southeastern Idaho:
http://history.nasa.gov/SP-362/ch6.1.htm
Also, an electrical scorching of that magnitude would fuse and/or change the composition of the materials in the rile, recent Hubble images however show that the material in the rile is virtually the same to the one in the surrounding area:
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9752269/
And latest research still points at the rille as being volcanic in origin:
http://toronto.rasc.ca/content/tstm082005.shtml
Once again, non credited photo evidence and misleading evidence. One can get only a misleading hypothesis from that.
And I’m sorry GiGo, but one has to see how misleading YOUR “evidence” is.
It was, the planets weren’t moving as fast as you think. The solar system we see now is NOT the solar system it has always been. We have BARELY rediscovered Galileo in much more recent times. In ancient mythology, Jupiter defeated Saturn and bound it with chains. Macrobius in the fifth century of our era, already ignorant of the meaning of these bands, asked: “But why is the god Saturn in chains?” In the Egyptian legend Isis (Jupiter) swathes Osiris (Saturn). The Egyptian apellative for Osiris was “the swathed.” In the Zend-Avesta it is said that the star Tistrya (Jupiter, later Venus) keeps Pairiko in twofold bonds. The Maori of New Zealand know about the rings of Saturn and Jupiter. All I’m saying is the way things are NOW, is not the way they used to be. Venus slowly moved by Mars, and zapped the hell out of Olympus Mons for a good long while.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/050606omcaldera.jpg
This is the “cauldera” of the Olympus Mons “volcano”
Do you see the smooth crater floor? The you see the craters that center themselves on other craters? The subcrater on the bottom left is the one that stands out the most, but to the upper-right of the bottom white box you can see where another crater centered itself. Thank goodness it continues itself into the “cauldera” a little bit or else you would start screaming that “no it doesn’t.” At the top of the cauldera you can see at least two craters, one centered on the main crater and another centered on THAT one.
How does the electricity do this? Well the arc jumps from the lowest point in the area, the crater floor, to the highest point, the crater rim, where it begins making a new crater.
The charge came down from the ionosphere, which acts as the conductor. Elves are glowing discharge rings that span out across the ionosphere. When the charge was busy zapping the hell out of the planet, it was carried across Mars’ ionosphere, travelling parallel to the surface of the planet, where it travelled to the point above the Olympus Mons, where it made a 90-degree turn downward onto the cauldera. This is how the electrical energy moves: paths of least resistance and shortest distances possible.
Looking at the Sun, we see how this energy travels across the surface of the Sun.
Currents travel across the surface of the Sun towards sunspots:
Where the energy is dumped into the sunspot through these tornadoes:
that tend to straddle the core of the sunspot:
Now up until this point, the energy was moving parallel to the surface, but when it reaches the sunspot it makes a 90-degree turn down into the sunspot, making the sunspot itself on big tornado itself:
Here we can see glass dunes on Mars, created by currents that were skirting the surface of the planet:
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/slide25.jpg
Notice how the branches form 90-degree angles?
Well no shit that’s what they believe! They’ve been force-fed the same crap that you, me, and all of we have our entire lives! It’s just another way to interpret all of the evidence. How the hell did our ancestors know about the existence of all the rings? And if they had ancient telescopes why was all this ancient technology lost, over and over, throughout all the years?
So why couldn’t it just melt the floor, like it did in the crater Tycho? Speaking of Tycho, what the hell is up with its rays that extend nearly a quarter of the way around the planet?
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/LunarRays.gif
Right there on the bottom right, just directly left of the arrow that points to it, is a ray that extends out from the crater RIM, not the crater CENTER.
I’m looking, but [And what of these?
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/051111lavachannels.gif](http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h56/unaguave/060310crater.jpgI just don’t see.[/url)
Only you is saying that, so allow me to disregard your “point” here.
That is no evidence, just a “say so” by you and others that had no access to the resources of today.
No evidence for this.
Straw man, I was not bothering with that detail, in any case I remember the structure of the Yellowstone super volcano has craters of the past eruptions in a similar jumble. (eroded now for obvious reasons, but researchers know the overall shape and location).
My cats breath smells like cat food. All what you say is pertinent to electrical phenomena, but that is irrelevant when the latest research shows it is still a volcano. You need to point to research that validates your idea that volcanism did not do what we see, I found tree different recent sources that see even “recent” volcanic evidence, you only have a photobucket and your say so. Pathetic.
And those things are not stable but moving constantly accros the surface, really TheFonz I would expect to see a mess of Rilles of Mars and the Moon, not “scars” that “coincidentally” appear as volcanoes.
Wind or water remain the most likely explanations:
When better photos come, the misleading interpretations fall, I have seen this happen a million times in discussions like this.
The latest evidence is that there are a changing structure, and both Uranus and Jupiter have rings, that is not what your ancestors reported, so they are not reliable evidence. Q.E.D.
I also was formerly a follower of similar ideas, I also was fed up with spoon fed ideas, but you know what? After many years of investigations I found out that in politics my gut feeling was correct: we indeed are fed crap in that regard, but looking on my own my gut feeling on the viability of alternative theories of the earth origins was the one that was wrong. I found that one can create a bullshit theory and make it last for years, I found on my own that Velikovsky and Von Daniken etc, are full of crap.
:rolleyes:
That is what we expect a massive asteroid strike on a low gravity body will do.
But of course. 
What about it? Once again, point to cites that show at least an effort at research not stolen images; otherwise, as I see here once again, you only are pointing at misleading evidence.
Is there no argument that can be made without being countered by mythology and bible verses?
Fonz Have you read Nightfall by Isaac Asimov? It’s about an impending disaster predicted by an ancient religious text. I think you’ll really enjoy it.
By The Way
So the coming disaster is either cyclical, or after a certain level of technology humanity always brings a catastrophe on itself? Does your theory involve Atlantis, Lemuria, Mu, or the Great Flood?
OH NOOOOO!!! :eek:
Then please look it up. It’s not like it’s a secret.
Straw man? It’s a well known FACT that hurricanes, tornadoes, dust devils, space tornadoes and anything else like that have electric and MAGNETIC fields associated with them. And what do scientists say cause sunspots? Whaaaaat do they saaaay? Come on Gigo, think… magnetic fields!!! Oh my goodness, and what causes magnetic fields? Charged moving particles!!! Is that what could be moving towards the sunspots?
Come ON people, damn. Give me this one point. I’ve just laid out what the hell is going on with sunspots. Why the charged particles are moving towards sunspots can be open up for debate, but damn! Even the losing team scores a touchdown once in a while.
I mean what the hell else is causing these magnetic fields? They just feel like congregating around the sunspot?
No strawman in that argument. You can say it’s not so all you want, but as far as I’m concerned I’ve won this one. This ONE, ok? Not all the others, I’m still trying to force those into your brain. Maybe if you recognize that charged moving particles are moving towards sunspots and sinking down into the core that you’ll realize many of the other things… but that’ll take a little more time I know.
Somewhat. What happened happened. I try to focus more on what’s happening in the world around us. I DO believe that those ancient civilizations existed, and that the Great Flood happened.
Remember that picture of the topography of Mars? Remember how the 4 great volcanoes form the triangle? Crystals and light energy my friend. It’s how they create a planet, perhaps forcing energy down into the core? Either way, that triangle is equilateral. Nice coincidence, that they decided to “erupt” in such a fashion. But then, the Straight Dope Message Boards are chock-full of coincidences.
[I look at the audience:] He don’t know me very well - does he?
I did, your sources can’t differentiate between a ring and a chain.
:rolleyes:
The Straw man was in propping up a complex caldera structure and assume that somehow I would become worried, not so since it shows what it is expected by repeated volcano eruptions.
Unrelated to Mars and the Moon, once again misleading.
The best analogy remains that the broken watch is correct only twice a day.
There is nothing wrong in pointing out the magnetic nature of the sunspots, only that they are part of the sun’s package that includes fusion as the main source of energy in the sun.
Nope, the effort was to make that applicable to the features of Mars and the Moon, not OK.
I thought you said you conceded the others, it is therefore unnecessary to force it into my brain.
Unless you have the guts to find cites with research that support your latest points, you are wasting your time, I’m replying for all the others seeing the sorry evidence that you present, they deserve better evidence and not mythical hearsay.
There is no evidence for that.
It is better to realize that you have no evidence for the things you say.
Oh I’m sorry, I thought you were trying somewhat to think about the evidence for yourself. You know, the pictures, the magnetic fields, you know… the facts and not the THEORIES.
In other words, nope, you can’t find evidence, Pathetic.
What’s pathetic is that you’re trying to please the crowd and not actually debate the subject at hand. Crap like this:
instantly gives you away. If you can’t hang then get out.
