Haven’t there been bolts of lightning observed on Jupiter several times more powerful than any on Earth? If lightning is caused by solar magnetism, wouldn’t Jupiter’s lightning be considerably less powerful, since Jupiter is 5.2 times further from the sun than Earth?
Doesn’t this suggest lightning is a locally-generated phenomenon?
I’m not even going to bother trying to explain facts to the OP at this stage. It’s easier just to ask about obvious holes in his hypotheses.
Back to the questions which I’ld like to to be answered:
Remember that the discharges that take place between the Sun and a planet have to reach a certain level before the breakdown occurs and lightning takes place. There are many diferent things that factor into this equation (Yes there is one, but we haven’t figured them out yet. There isn’t exactly a market for these things because the mainstream has a strangelhold on astronomy, so the Electric Universe isn’t putting bread on the table at the moment). But what happens is that the dark energy slowly builds up in the Sun until the breakdown voltage with Jupiter is finally reached. Because Jupiter is much farther away and is a much bigger object when it finally DOES have lightning it is a big ass bolt.
Check it out:
Makes sense, right? Do you remember that Jupiter is supposed to be Zeus, the god of thunder and lightning? Oh that’s right that’s silly talk.
Any proposed unification between gravity and electromagnetism would occur at energy scales way, way higher than anything generally reached in the universe at present.
Again, known physical laws severely constrain the theoretical constructs that one can dream up. That is why it is highly unlikely that any theory that calls for the overturning of vast amounts of knowledge from different fields can be correct. At best, it would need to an extraordinary amount of evidence.
We accumulate a little bit of that knowledge every day, as demonstrated by how astronomers amazed astronomers are every time they turn over a new rock. They’re amazed by the sunspot penumbra, they were amazed when they discovered galaxies defying their elegant equations for gravity, the list goes on but gets forgotten with time.
A little tidbit about lightning on Saturn:
Then there’s some stuff where they try to say it MAY be the shadows from the rings, mainstream THEORY, then:
Emphasis added.
These radiation belts can ‘hop’ over obstructions, without being absorbed by them. This sounds an aweful lot like double layers to me:
To what do you ascribe the correlation between storms and lightning? The standard model is that lightning is created by electrical effects in the atmosphere, so it makes sense that, say, clouds are involved.
Cloud systems can be tracked and storms predicted. Not perfectly, no, but certainly more accurately than a sudden burst of “solar-electric” energy would suggest. What about lightning on the far side of the planet? If lightning is caused by the sun, then you’d expect lightning to be oriented with respect to the sun. But it isn’t. It’s always oriented with respect to the ground and the atmosphere. How does your model explain this?
If the power of lightning is actually magnified by distance (because of some energy link being broken), then you’d expect that there would be much less of it, since the total energy is reduced by the inverse square of the distance (you do accept the inverse square law, right?). But Jupiter has both more violent and more frequent storms than Earth. How do you explain that?
Remember it? I’m waiting to see you prove it.
So if lightning is triggered by the sun, why and how does lightning sometimes occur at night?
Hmmmm, would an admission of guilt from NASA suffice?
The picture:
Even NASA sez, “Gravity can’t explain it…”
BOOOOOM. Now my turn. How do you explain that, if not through electromagnetics?
Why does it have to be electromagnetics? Can you come up with an electromagnetic model that would form the rings, using what is currently known and provable about how electromagnetics works?
Speculation aside about how vast static charges build up on planets inverse to their distance from the source, you still haven’t answered my questions.
Shall I put you down for:
Hey Grey, get in line. I’m waiting for answers to my questions from yesterday…
I’m not on theFonz’ side, but asking him to generate predictive models based on the (presumed) high-level mathematical background of the electric-sun hypothesis seems like a non-starter. It’s a bit like demanding that an english major produce a defense of quantum theory.
So, if we can detect this magnetic fields that are generated by dust devils on Earth, and we can detect the magnetic fields in the much larger (to say nothing of more distant) Martian dust devils, why haven’t we been able to detect these magnetic fields in terrestrial tornados and hurricanes?
It is pretty silly to make a false claim in the very post that you are quoting, trying to distort what was said.
The actual statement that you quoted and ignored was
There is no statement, however you might twist it, that says “gravity can’t explain it.” Rather, there is an admission that the early theories of simple gravitational systems involving a relatively few moons, the planet, and the rings do not explain the newly discovered phenomena.
On the other hand, while we do not yet have enough information to identify exactly how the rings were formed and are maintained, we have already established that the rings are clearly within the Roche Limit, a gravitational process that destroys smaller satellites while allowing their debris to remain in orbit.
Note that two of the current theories explicitly rely on gravity and the third one implies gravity. None require any odd “electrical” mechanism.
How do you explain it using electromagnetics? The insufficiency of one theory does not prove another theory.
Well I’m not asking TheFonz to generate anything. I’m asking for the mathematical model the theory supposedly explains. If there isn’t one the OP can direct us to, then this is a waste of time.
Back to the questions avoided to date. Turns out when I preface tham with our initials they show up as stellar classes. Spooky. 
B1. How did the sun form with such a massive positive charge that it has glowed for the last several billion years despite the constant influx of galactic electrons?
B2. If the solar wind is positive, and accelerated away from the sun by charge repulsion, then the charge repulsion of the sun must be enough to overcome its own gravitational attraction. So what holds the sun together?
B3. If a sunspot is just a ‘hole’ or ‘dimple’ in the surface that allows us to see deeper into the sun, why don’t they appear brighter than the surface, like a blackbody radiator? (If you take a metal tube and drill a small hole in the side, then heat the tube to incandescence, the hole actually looks brighter than the solid surface, even though the interior of the tube is at the same temp as the surface.) Is there something in the sun that cools the interior?
G1. Is there a mathematical description of the theory?
G2. How does the electric sun theory manage to describe steady state evolution of stars?
G3. What keeps stars from collapsing?
G4. How, exactly, does a plasma create new elements
G4a. In what ratio are these elements created?
Yeah, I’d settle for a website that has some solid math instead of photographic ‘evidence’, too.
Yeah…I think Grey’s point is very important. It is all well-and-good to wave your hands and point at pictures, but at some point, one actually has to do some mathematical calculations. I am not claiming that our OP has to do them himself; however, he does have to at least be able to show where such calculations have been carried out if he wants us to believe that this hand-waving can be translated into an actual model that holds together mathematically.
Well, there goes my magnum opus Einstein Didn’t Have All the Answers So Check Out this New Cosmology Based Almost But Not Quite Entirely on the Results of Hal Linden’s Penultimate Prostate Exam (Complete with Pictures on Imageshack So You Know It’s Proven).
If the mainstream still hasn’t figured it all out, how do you suppose anyone else had? Once again you’re asking for the impossible. If the mathematics of it all had been worked out there would no longer be any questions, and you all would be thoroughly silenced. As it stands, though, your lack of knowledge in the models you defend allows you to keep talking smack all the while I have to answer each and every little question. Then you forget everything about the last question I answered or even the relevance of it, and you move on to the next thing.
The energy follows the path of least resistance, which happens to be the water vapor that condensed into clouds during the night time. The energy CAN encircle the globe you know, it’s a plasma…
And the insuffieciency of one theory definitely doesn’t the one theory.
The corona is plasma. It is a very good conductor. You know how our magnetic field tends to deflect the solar wind towards our poles? The massive galactic current that feeds our star keeps it positive. Oh I’m sorry, you thought I said electrons were flowing through. No no no, it is the almost impossible to detect ether. This is what keeps the corona at a constant charge.
What causes a metal bar to expand when it is heated?
Whoops, here you go getting the wrong idea again. The charge repulsion is only enough to pull away what is getting accelerated off the surface. The same thing that holds our gas giant planets together is the same thing that holds the Sun together.
Z-pinching, lots and lots of it. The new elements then rain down into the depths of the star.
Maybe so Tom, but the blue ring of Saturn relies on an extraordinary set of circumstances to explain how the fine particles are made by one of its moons. It’ll be funny to see them try to pull out the same set of extraordinary circumstances to see them try to explain it on Uranus, as well, on TOP of the set of extraordinary circumstances to explain why Uranus’ moons orbit the planet the way they do.
One thing to remember: THEY’RE ALL THEORIES. Everything about our solar system seems to be a large number of extraordinary circumstances to allow for all the order of the rings of all the planets.
Oh looky here, some scientists think sunspots are mssive hurricanes. Magnetic fields, clumping together. Remember all those long filaments running parallel to the surface with dark stripes down the back that resemble tornadoes? Whadda ya know? They’re pulling something towards the sunspot, dumping it into the sunspot. It would make sense to me that there’s something in the core that’s pulling all these electrons across the surface (making tornadoes parallel to the surface) and dumping them into the sunspot down into the core (making the sunspot one big massive hurricane.
HaHahA, I lied to you. I was waiting to see if you actually knew anything about this, but we DO know tornadoes have magnetic fields.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=tornado+magnetic+field
Hurricanes, spawn tornadoes all the time. Big sunspot hurricane, big magnetic field.
I’d bet the farm on the PREDICTION that hurricanes have magnetic fields.
You’re more than welcome to doubt that they do.
Wait, so there’s this thing that’s really hard to detect, but it makes stars work? How does it interact with stars, yet remain nearly impossible to detect?
