Honda fielded F1 racers in the 1960s. They’ve slowed since then. 
Hell, they were in F1 as recently as 2008, although relative to the successful cars of that era, they were indeed slow. And likely to burst into flames as I recall. But if we’re actually talking about fun vehicles, riders on Honda motorcycles have won 16 of the last 25 MotoGP world championships, including 6 of the last 7 years.
I don’t see too many tractor trailers driving through downtown San Francisco (though, as noted, Tesla has their upcoming Semi). Again, these bans are just for various city centers, not region-wide or national. Cities already have numerous other transport options–inconvenient, maybe, but not unusable. And I’m sure the bans will have exceptions for special cases (just as trucks can have oversized loads today).
London already has an emissions charge in some areas. ~$20 a day if you drive an ICE in central London. They can certainly achieve an effective ban simply by cranking up the charge to unpleasant levels.
Cities don’t need to wait until EV penetration is 90% or whatever. They’re congested enough as it is. They can reduce traffic load and select for low-emissions vehicles through either soft or hard bans on ICE cars. If you’re already limited by road and parking space, you may as well selectively keep out the polluting cars.
F1 is a waste of time, little more than a vanity project.
Construction, concerts, theaters productions, special events, football games, NASCAR all use multiple TT.
I know a FedEx TT driver that routinely does Newark to Boston or DC & back in a night. He’s pushing the max stated distance & I’m sure other city combinations exceed it. He drops off one trailer & hooks up another & starts his return journey. He bitches that a 15 min delay frequently means an extra hour to get home because he’s now hitting rush hour traffic near his final destination, which means if he needs to factor in recharge time packages aren’t going to get delivered.
The stated distance on the Tesla truck that* isn’t even for sale yet* is only 500 miles, a driver can do more distance than that in a day in an existing TT, which will slow deliveries down & add extra cost.
What about intercity buses, like Greyhound, Trailways, Bolt, & Megabus, or are you giving them magical exemptions, too?
people/companies for whom an electric truck won’t work won’t buy electric trucks, at least not at first. I’m not sure why you seem hell-bent on implying that if they can’t work for every role, they can’t work at all for anybody.
besides, it’s pretty clear that the first generation of electric semis is very likely to be captive distribution fleets (Wal-Mart, Meijer, etc.) Driver rolls in, drops the trailer off at the dock, drives the tractor over to the recharge station, and hops into a fully charged tractor for the next haul. lather, rinse, repeat.
Can you ask him how much it costs to service/maintain a semi in a year? I have no idea if it’s $200 or $5,000.
This is pretty much standard operating procedure for EV critics; If they can show a case where an EV does not work, that must therefore mean that EV’s will not work for anyone.
“I need a truck to tow my 5th wheel, therefore EV’s are stupid”
“I need to commute 500 miles per day in an area with no chargers, therefore EV’s are stupid”
“I need to haul 1000 pounds of hay and all my tools in my vehicle. Can a Tesla model 3 do that? No it cannot. Therefore EV’s are stupid.”
“I knew a guy who needs to refuel his vehicle in under 10 minutes. If an EV cannot do that, they are stupid.”
Combine that with insistence that EV technology is unchanging, and what we have now in terms of battery efficiency and public chargers is as good as it’s ever going to get.
Yep. And home computers will always be too expensive and not powerful enough to be anything more than toys for children.
This is in the context of localities banning ICE refueling, so your free-market optimism is unwarranted in this case.
I have heard of localities thinking of banning ICE vehicles from driving in congested city centers, but not of anyplace considering banning ICE refueling of transport trucks. Do you have a cite?
Currently, the can’t work for any role because none exist yet. Dr. Strangelove was talking about banning a class of vehicle for which there is no option to replace a DTT (Diesel) with an EVTT; he also seem to not grasp why long-haul TTs might be needed in a city. I showed reasons why long-haul TTs might be needed in cities.
Yes, they’ll work for some companies, or parts of some fleets but you have to agree that there is a decent sized segment of the market that a 500 mile EVTT won’t work for. I have a hard time banning something useful for which there is no viable alternative; you’d now need to setup transfer stations to deliver those goods the last few miles in an EVTT. FedEx, UPS, et al work on tight timelines to get packages delivered overnight. They don’t have lots of wiggle room for delays; especially when a delay starting means longer delays on the backend as they don’t make their depot before rush hour.
Trucks routinely last for 1 million miles. I’d be hard pressed to be an early adopter until I see their reliability proven because failure might mean loss of my business; therefore, I see slow adoption once they start being sold.
Can you just swap out a DTT cab for a EVTT cab or is the trailer specifically paired to the EVTT cab? If not, you’d need to unpack the ETT trailer & repack the contents in a EVTT trailer. While anybody could do boxes or pallets, I doubt they’d have the expertise to pack some of the custom materials just right used like those used in event production.
Of course, this is all moot because we’ll have teletransportation in 10 years, too. :rolleyes:
Yes, we’ll have to do something about all those NASCAR games in downtown Amsterdam…
A number of the cities on that list can’t physically fit semis already in their centers. Somehow they make do. Others, I’m sure, can do without, granting exemptions in special cases like construction (where you already need a boatload of permits).
And, well, I’m sure these cities don’t give the tiniest shit if some truck driver is mad about not being able to drive every minute of the day. At least in the US, we’ve already decided that 11 hours per day is the legal limit even enough I’m sure some drivers would be happy to drop amphetamines for 36-hour driving binges. Who cares? It’s in no one’s interest to allow that behavior, let alone encourage it. If some truck drivers have to spend downtime due to EV truck charging or cab swapping, so be it.
Again, so what? For one, you’ve changed the subject: you’ve talking intercity routes, not within a city. But let’s suppose we zip forward another decade to 2040 and there’s serious talk about banning ICEs completely within states or nationally. And let’s suppose there’s been zero range development in those years.
Tell me again though why I should care if some truck driver (wait, it’s 2040 and we still have truck drivers?) wants to push the max hours and doesn’t want to spend even 30 minutes at a charger? The EV truck is already saving money on fuel so I doubt my costs will go up overall for the shit I buy at WalMart.
There seems to be some miscommunication here… I don’t think anyone has suggested that an EV motor will work for EVERY SINGLE transport truck. The suggestion is that there is a large enough market for transport trucks that will work for some companies or fleets. I’m not sure what your point is, other than you are agreeing with people on this. I am not (nor are others) suggesting that EVERY SINGLE transport truck usage will be suitable for electric power.
Again, I think you have not grasped that nobody here thinks that EV transport trucks are available for purchase RIGHT NOW. So your arguments about their lack of availability at the moment are arguments against… nothing. Everyone is in agreement that they are not available RIGHT NOW.
And I take it by your comment above that you feel that EV’s for transport purposes will effectively NEVER be available, and the technology to create them is essentially science fiction and open to mockery. That is the point I will need to disagree on.
I responded to the claim that Honda didn’t make fast cars. They built a few. Not that I could fit my 6’4" frame in any without herniation.
Beam me down! Well, might be a few bugs at first.
You’re missing the point, less drive time per day means less mileage driven, which means greater costs to get goods to market.
No, I’m arguing against a proposal (not a law) to ban ICE in 10 years as fantasy. Yes, range & vehicle diversity will get better, but when? When we have our flying car??? Hell, from this “documentary” we know that teletransportation will be available sometime before 240 years from now. :rolleyes:
[ul]
[li]The average US passenger vehicle is 11.8 years old & only a small percentage of new vehicles sold are EVs. [/li][li]The vast majority of EVs sold today are sedans yet that makes up a minority of the overall new passenger vehicle market. [/li][li]There’s exactly one vehicle (X) currently being sold with 3rd row seating, & that’s priced as a luxury vehicle. There’s no large SUVs being sold yet.[/li][li]There are no 4WD (offroad 4WD, not AWD) proposed that I am aware of. [/li][li]I’m not aware of any commercial vehicles being sold. There are announcements of upcoming pickup trucks but none can be purchased today. Go back a couple of pages & we beat up whether the high sides on the Cybertruck will make it unusable as a working truck - will you be able to put a locking (took) box in the front of the bed like one can do with a normal/low sided pickup truck. [/li][li]Can you even do a extended limo with an EV given the batteries are under the floorboards? How much range degradation will there be with all the extra weight, both vehicle extension & extra passengers? [/li][li]Are there any timeframes for cargo vans/15-passenger vans, or the equivalent of a Sprinter? [/li][li]What about box trucks or larger 2-axle trucks? [/li][li]Dump trucks?[/li][/ul]
Anyone who thinks we’re going to ban more than 50% of vehicles in 10 years is smoking something.
If you’ll re-read my post, you’ll find that I mentioned costs. And again: so what?
Banning 36-hour meth-fueled driving binges also increased driving costs. And yet somehow society has survived. If a semi with 5,000 gallons of milk takes an extra 30 minutes of driver time, my cost has gone up by… literally under a penny.
Of course, in actual reality, transport truckers will get far more savings from not burning diesel than theoretical driving time costs.
That’s not the slightest bit relevant. This discussion is about banning ICE cars from a handful of city centers, not whether some rural coal roller will switch to a Cybertruck. A city can get away with a ban as long as there’s a reasonable selection of EVs that fit their needs.
Why do you suppose that UPS, Walmart, Pepsi, and Sysco have ordered the trucks?
I know jack shit about trucking, but those companies are putting their money where their mouth is that the truck could offer benefits. It sounds like you have already decided that they are wrong. That’s why I’m curious as to whether you think you know something that these huge corporations don’t.
yes, of course I agree, because I said exactly that in the effing post of mine you quoted! I LITERALLY SAID “people/companies for whom an electric truck won’t work won’t buy electric trucks, at least not at first.” So I don’t know what you’re kvetching about anymore, other than just banging the “they won’t work for me, so anyone who buys one is stupid and wrong” drum over and over.
Trucking is a longer game than 5 to 10 years and the disruption of that industry is widely expected to be much more than electrification.
Oh the delivery truck market is ripe now (think Amazon, UPS, and defined warehouse/distribution center to user routes).
Long haul though the electrification (which rough estimates is about $22K operating savings/year in use) is a small part of the disruption that Tesla and, less noisily Volvo, are likely to cause.
Tesla’s vision of course includes trucks that are completely autonomous minimally for most of their routes and which therefore may have more time spent fueling but also more time driving and less labor costs. The challenges of autonomous driving are much less onerous for the open freeway portion.
Volvo, also now heavily committed to electrification over the next decade, has been much more cautiously going the route of truck platooning with V2V and semiautonomous technology. They have always sold the system as having at least one trained professional driver involved as lead vehicle in the platoon, with multiple other trucks traveling as a virtual train much more closely than human operated vehicles could safely operate. But the vehicles they are ramping up to sell are both electric and fully autonomous.
The two aspects are complementary and likely completely disruptive of the industry.