This has driven me crazy ever since I noticed it. I know the answer is somewhere within the SDMB…
Why are electrical outlets, at least in “newer” construction, always oriented horizontally (with the oulets side-by-side)? I clearly remember the outlets in older homes being oriented vertically, one outlet above the other.
Is it due to wall construction? Older walls, particularly lath-and-plaster, would require cutting fewer laths for a vertical orientation…but the outlets are installed before the lath is put on…aren’t they?
I dispute you premise. Most electrical single outlet boxes are nailed lengthwise to a stud and this means the outlets are oriented one above the other.
I have yet to see a room where the outlets built to NEC codes are horizontal. I don’t have my book handy but I remember every 10 ’ of horizontal wall space and I think for non countertop walls 18" verticle. Too lazy to measure right now what I have.
OOps, I meant to ad Tha each state may that not all states adopt the NEC as soon as it comes out and they may even adapt it to their own purpose. I can see the old debate of "ground pole up or ground pole down’ debate becoming moot with this installation. If the hot wire be comes disconnected somehow and it’s on the top pole of the outlet “wire memory”(the wire becomes loose and simply staus up due to the bend from installation) may prevent a fire or a breaker trip if using a metal box(which must be bonded i.e. grounded) you will (theoretically) trip a breaker/blow a fuse. On the other hand if you’re using a plastic box and it’s on the bottom you avoid both problems. Metal box and no power=troubleshoot, if no tripped breaker=bad connection/outlet.
plastic box and no power=taking out outlets and checking. A whole other debate then.
I’ve listened to some of these code writers argue over the ground pole up or down before, they get rather heated, NEC is part of the NFPA and it’s all about preventing fires.
I too agree that most outlets are installed vertically.
Professional electricians mostly use boxes that are designed with a bracket already built onto them to allow quick, easy attachment (vertically) to a 2x4 stud. Saves them a good deal of time. Go down to your nearby Home Depot, etc. any you can see them in the electrical dept.
Jeez! My stupid fingers! That senseless sentence should read “I meant to add that each state may adopt the new NEC as soon as it comes out but not all states always do(have)”
I hate it when my words get jumbled like that! Especially when I do it!
For the record I was composing the ground up or down at the same time as Chefguy was posting, had no idea he would point that out, it was what I expected to read as well.
The funny thing about the NEC is how many exceptions to every blasted rule in a 5 lb. or more book of rules there are.
I HAVE seen 'em, and I swear, in this part of the world (Illinois), the damned things are oriented side-by-side (nearly) all the time these days. I don’t know about the local or state codes, though.
I’m not an electrician, but I’m a fair do-it-yerselfer, and I just can’t figure out why they used to be vertical (around here) and now every one I see is horizontal (around here). I assumed it might be a cost-efficiency thing, but I’m damned if I can figure out why that would be…the boxes and the outlets can be oriented any way you like, give or take an inch of conduit.
I may have to threaten a few local electrical contractors, but I will find an answer…
Having grown up in Illinois and having two brothers who are IBEW electricians I can say that horizontal outlets would be an exception to the rule and used only is situations where space or orientation of adjacent structures made it more convenient. I’ve never seen a outlet box specifically set up for horizontal installation. They almost always have a bracket or spacing markings for installation in the vertical position.
I’m not sure there is an electrical code requirement on this. However I’ll be the inspector would want the ground lug (the hole) on the bottom of a three prong receptacle, and the wide prong on the left side of a two prong.
NEC 1999 did not specify whether the ground should be up or down(or sideways), I haven’t read 2002 but I’d be surprised if the debate has been settled.
Inspectors must abide the code and their preferences can’t be the rules. It isn’t uncommon to have to prove to an inspector that what’s been installed is by the code. There are SO many exceptions to the rules!
This is probably no help to you but in the UK and Ireland, all (i.e 99.9%) of boxes are installed horizontally. This is beacuse a double socket would look funny if it was vertical - given the orientation of a UK socket.
All of the boxes I have seen/worked with are designed to be mounted on a verticle stud. To mount it horizontaly, you would need to add blocking between the studs. And in standard construction, you don’t need to run your wire in conduit.
If you are seeing a lot of this, it seems to me that someone is doing a lot more work than they need, or they are buying some special kind of box.
Well, of course, but when has it ever been a bad idea to cater to the whims of inspectors as long as it doesn’t cost anything and doesn’t violate the code?
Which code isn’t all that great anyway. For example, the code calls for a 15 Amp. breaker with #14 copper. At the same time, you can plug in an appliance using #20 wire right next to a lace curtain and burn it up without ever tripping the breaker.
I just pulled a couple out to see how they’re mounted. They seem to be standard boxes. I suspect the main part of the house is NOT conduit; there’s a blue plastic sleeve in the hole where the wire enters the box, I presume that’s to protect the wires. I watched the house go up, but I never really noticed if it was conduit or Romex.
But…the basement was finished just a few years ago, done by different electricians, and I KNOW it’s conduit. And all the outlets are oriented horizontally, just like the rest of the house!!!
Except for one oddball out in the garage, which is about 2 inches away from a light switch. I’m putting that one down to a desire for symmetry…
At any rate, I know the guys who did the basement…time to track them down…
Now, as a former electrician I can understand someone wanting to run the boxes horizontally for a circuit in conduit. A stud-mounted box creates some problems for conduit runs, and requires extra time and materials. A box mounted midway between studs allows the installer to make straight runs from box to box.
For romex runs, it makes no sense to me unless the installer was shooting for uniformity throughout the house.
j66, there’s no way I’m being sucked into that argument. I always installed ground pole down, since that is how I was trained, but you end up chasing your tail when arguing about which is correct.
Another variable is the kind of box used. As described above, the standard single-gang boxes have nailing spots at each end, so the box winds up parallel to whatever piece of lumber it’s nailed to.
But… There is another kind of box that nobody’s mentioned yet - the “4x4” or square box. Yes. Square. Doesn’t matter which direction it’s nailed on. What does matter is the orientation of the “mud ring” that’s screwed onto the face of the box. The mud ring has a rectangular opening that accepts the outlet or switch, and as the name suggests, serves to keep the “mud” (a funny name for plaster) out of the box. In this era of Sheetrock, plaster’s not too common, though.
Advantages to square boxes? Aside from being able to mount your switches or receptacles in either direction, there’s a lot more room inside to hold the outlets, wires and wire nuts. If someone’s being lazy and using the “back stab” terminals, space isn’t much of a problem, but done to code with wire nuts (so you’re not “daisy-chaining” your wiring through a device - a big no-no) you’ll appreciate the extra space. Installing something wider and deeper like a GFCI or electronic dimmer? You’ll really appreciate the room. Decide you’d like two outlets there? No problem. Just change the mud ring and pop in the extra outlet. Try doing that with a regular nail-on rectangular box.
A minor nitpick: The purpose of the mud ring is primarily two-fold; first, it is manufactured in varying depths in order to bring the mounted device out to the finished wall surface, i.e., a 1/2" ring is used with 1/2" sheetrock. Secondly, it is used to adapt a 4" box for use with electrical devices such as outlets and switches. I would think that your suggested purpose would place a distant third.
So, there is no ‘correct’ to the up-down ground question?
All of mine have been installed ground down, because that’s the way they are in the little pictures; and it does seem to be the more stable configuration because the ground is larger and fits more tightly.
But the triangle with the apex at the top Should be more stable; that’s why I asked. Hell, it’s easy enough to change if I did it wrong.
I always installed ground pole down, since that is how I was trained, but you end up chasing your tail when arguing about which is correct.