Electricity and Hurricanes

[treis]

@smurfslappa

My daughter was in Pascagoula, Mississippi this week, and took this picture. She said that these homes were about 1/4 mile from the beach. What is hard to believe is that this location is nearly 60 miles away from where the center of Katrina came ashore.

Picture of the damage

Did you consider the theory that the second poster in that thread posited. That it was the local “knee-grows” that did it?

[smurfslappa]

@TwoTrouts

I really do not understand the debate here. There is an electrical component to hurricanes? So what? The warm water provides the energy and moisture to the storm, which has been demonstrated by noting the water temperature change after a hurricane passes, sometimes by as much as 2 degrees. This energy is released in high winds and violent bursts of lightning. As for the microtremors, that is nothing new either. The release of all that energy in the form of tidal surges and waves gets the coast ringing seismically. You can feel it when standing on a beach as a hurricane approaches. One can feel the approach of large waves as vibrations in the ground, followed by a definite shudder as the wave breaks upon the shore. Magnify that a few-fold for when the storm peaks, and I am not surprised that it registers on siesmographs.

OoOOoOk. Things to note about Hurricane Wilma, from the article I posted above that you did not read, titled “Wilma the Superstorm and the Energy from the Vacuum”:

@Da Article

**Storm Surge Mechanism

Of course the current forecasts show it going directly into Mexico for a time. (Who knows?) My guess for now is due north for 24 hours or so. At the current rate, it should move about 200 nautical miles (nm) or so in that time frame. This is very slow for a hurricane. It is piling up an astronomical storm surge. The pile of water under this storm is probably close to the largest on record. The mass here is probably a mound of water something like 30 feet high and covering an ellipse about 200 by 500 miles or more. That weighs a lot. Moving it around is going to break a lot of things. Whoever gets hit is going to hurt. Moving this much water in the narrow Yucatan Channel is going to be spectacular.**

Note the large storm surge the hurricanes suck up.

And:

**Licked by a Cold “Dry Tongue”

A “dry tongue” is part of what a hurricane is. It is a short circuit between the polar jet and the subtropical jet, allowing arctic air to jump over the mid section of the country and fall directly into the eye of the hurricane – causing the equal of a combustion-chamber function over the hot water. (Fuel is hot, adding cold is like feeding in the Oxygen) A strong dry tongue is required to feed a strong storm. A stable dry tongue allows the powerful “Outflow” the weathermen talk about. Under a strong north wind, which is typically very dry, the Midwest (Misssouri, Arkansas area) is expecting frosts in about 3 days.

Dropping a cold blast of this strength into the hot water north of Cuba and West of Florida is like dropping a thousand hydrogen bombs. This is close to the scenario that set off the “Perfect Storm,” also known as the “no name storm.” I haven’t seen much about this in the tropical storm discussions. This is like merging a winter storm with a hurricane. I have no idea exactly what is going to happen, but it could really mess up the east coast of the USA if this happens. If it is aimed wrong, it could put the storm out, like a switching off a light.

If you are curious, this is identical to the turbulence discussions you have had on vehicle combustion, and on airflow over vehicles. There is no difference at all. It is the same physics.

Regards to the issue of the “dry tongue” strength, at issue is an absolute temperature (degrees Kelvin) ratio between the hot and the cold. My understanding is that the upper-level temperatures driving this frost are close to (a VERY deep cold –175 F) and the temperature of the water in the region is approaching (90 F) in terms of a drive for a storm, this is about the limit in physics. This is rather like dropping liquid oxygen into a fire.**

and finally:

**Short Circuit: Electrical Exchange into Space

For those interested in the issues of potential “Weather Control” and the more “exotic” alternative energy generation theories, the physics are similar. This is very much related to the Zero Point Energy (ZPE) and to the issues of Tesla’s energy theories. It gets very much into the area of how the whole universe works. It gets into stellar physics real fast.

For those not so schooled in the issues, a starter course would be to note that the Hurricane is boiling off millions of tons of water into the atmosphere and then essentially quick freezing it. In this tropical location, condensation be transferring all this heat into hot air, but this time the air is actually extremely cold. In order for this cold to exist even for a moment in this region of rapid condensation – which is the Heat Recovery Phase – the storm has to be pumping this energy off into space either as hot air (which it is not) or by electromagnetic means. The electromagnetic freeze “ray” is beaming the energy away fast. The amount here is equal the detonation of a 20 megaton Hydrogen bomb every few minutes. To strip the planet of this much heat this fast requires an ionic short circuit into deep space.

If this hasn’t confused you, then you are well on your way to understanding hurricanes and similar storms. It also removes any doubt that there is plenty of energy around to be used. This is the fast trip into the wild and wooly side of physics that is not popular with the tired old heads that dominate the field. (Don’t bother those guys! They are mean and they don’t take evidence well. This stuff upsets them a lot.) It may be further evidence confirming the theory that the sun and planets interact electrically. (Ref.)
Geologic Effects

Curiously this links up with the geologic side of the planet as well. Remember that all energy transfers go two ways. Yes, there is a relationship – though it isn’t well understood – between the recent earthquakes and these storms. In the energy circulation on this planet, and its interactions with the space surrounding earth, they are all connected.

This report should get the Alternative Energy guys’ juices flowing. There is lots of energy out there. We have no shortage. We just don’t know how to use it right now. Nature is dropping us a hint, if we have the wit to grasp the implications.

Imagine being able to tap into a small fraction of the energy flowing around this storm. Even an hour’s energy from this storm would drive the USA for a long time.**

That is a lot closer to how hurricanes work than you described. And nope, didn’t even occur to me that the local knee-grows did it, as many other places saw similar damage, as well. Something tells me that maybe it wasn’t a large category 3 - as the official story says - after all.

[asterion]

@Ludovic

Nope, I’m too busy watching American Idol and popping Lithium.

While I’m too busy working on my rendition of “Lithium” for the next American Idol. I mean, it’s gotta be nearly as easy to sing like Cobain as it is to sing like Corgan or Dylan.

[Viscera]

Meteorologist chiming in, yes, I’ll bite.

I read the entire article, and I saw exactly zero cites to this “alternative” theory of hurricanes (I don’t consider links to the lunar time tables relevant). When one has an alternative theory to years of hurricane research, it is normal to provide attempts at proving it.

To mention each of the article’s points anyway…

Of course the current forecasts show it going directly into Mexico for a time. (Who knows?) My guess for now is due north for 24 hours or so. At the current rate, it should move about 200 nautical miles (nm) or so in that time frame. This is very slow for a hurricane. It is piling up an astronomical storm surge. The pile of water under this storm is probably close to the largest on record. The mass here is probably a mound of water something like 30 feet high and covering an ellipse about 200 by 500 miles or more. That weighs a lot. Moving it around is going to break a lot of things. Whoever gets hit is going to hurt. Moving this much water in the narrow Yucatan Channel is going to be spectacular.

ALL hurricanes produce storm surges. 30 feet is the high end of what hurricanes can produce, storm surge-wise, but Wilma had the lowest Atlantic central pressure on record, so this is not much of a shock. I’m not exactly sure how the author was tying this in.

A “dry tongue” is part of what a hurricane is. It is a short circuit between the polar jet and the subtropical jet, allowing arctic air to jump over the mid section of the country and fall directly into the eye of the hurricane – causing the equal of a combustion-chamber function over the hot water. (Fuel is hot, adding cold is like feeding in the Oxygen) A strong dry tongue is required to feed a strong storm. A stable dry tongue allows the powerful “Outflow” the weathermen talk about. Under a strong north wind, which is typically very dry, the Midwest (Misssouri, Arkansas area) is expecting frosts in about 3 days.

Dropping a cold blast of this strength into the hot water north of Cuba and West of Florida is like dropping a thousand hydrogen bombs. This is close to the scenario that set off the “Perfect Storm,” also known as the “no name storm.” I haven’t seen much about this in the tropical storm discussions. This is like merging a winter storm with a hurricane. I have no idea exactly what is going to happen, but it could really mess up the east coast of the USA if this happens. If it is aimed wrong, it could put the storm out, like a switching off a light.

If you are curious, this is identical to the turbulence discussions you have had on vehicle combustion, and on airflow over vehicles. There is no difference at all. It is the same physics.

Regards to the issue of the “dry tongue” strength, at issue is an absolute temperature (degrees Kelvin) ratio between the hot and the cold. My understanding is that the upper-level temperatures driving this frost are close to (a VERY deep cold –175 F) and the temperature of the water in the region is approaching (90 F) in terms of a drive for a storm, this is about the limit in physics. This is rather like dropping liquid oxygen into a fire.

Whoever wrote this has no understanding of meteorology. Polar (cold) air is defined by the polar jet stream. It cannot “jump” over the jet stream. The jet stream is a discontinuity formed by temperature gradients below it, throughout the troposphere. Since the temperature gradient forms the jet stream, the polar air cannot be “south” of the jet stream. Secondly, the subtropical jet is weak to non-existent during the summer, as the temperature gradients between the mid-latitude air and the tropical air is small. Based on this, the rest of the paragraph makes no sense, and cannot be logically followed. Whatever he is talking about with regards to cold temperatures, makes no physical sense, as again, would be present in mid-latitude cyclones, and hurricanes come in contact with them all the time, and virtually always cause them to weaken rapidly. I have no idea what a “dry tongue” means in reference to this subject.

And finally…

Short Circuit: Electrical Exchange into Space

For those interested in the issues of potential “Weather Control” and the more “exotic” alternative energy generation theories, the physics are similar. This is very much related to the Zero Point Energy (ZPE) and to the issues of Tesla’s energy theories. It gets very much into the area of how the whole universe works. It gets into stellar physics real fast.

For those not so schooled in the issues, a starter course would be to note that the Hurricane is boiling off millions of tons of water into the atmosphere and then essentially quick freezing it. In this tropical location, condensation be transferring all this heat into hot air, but this time the air is actually extremely cold. In order for this cold to exist even for a moment in this region of rapid condensation – which is the Heat Recovery Phase – the storm has to be pumping this energy off into space either as hot air (which it is not) or by electromagnetic means. The electromagnetic freeze “ray” is beaming the energy away fast. The amount here is equal the detonation of a 20 megaton Hydrogen bomb every few minutes. To strip the planet of this much heat this fast requires an ionic short circuit into deep space.

If this hasn’t confused you, then you are well on your way to understanding hurricanes and similar storms. It also removes any doubt that there is plenty of energy around to be used. This is the fast trip into the wild and wooly side of physics that is not popular with the tired old heads that dominate the field. (Don’t bother those guys! They are mean and they don’t take evidence well. This stuff upsets them a lot.) It may be further evidence confirming the theory that the sun and planets interact electrically. (Ref.)
Geologic Effects

Curiously this links up with the geologic side of the planet as well. Remember that all energy transfers go two ways. Yes, there is a relationship – though it isn’t well understood – between the recent earthquakes and these storms. In the energy circulation on this planet, and its interactions with the space surrounding earth, they are all connected.

This report should get the Alternative Energy guys’ juices flowing. There is lots of energy out there. We have no shortage. We just don’t know how to use it right now. Nature is dropping us a hint, if we have the wit to grasp the implications.

Imagine being able to tap into a small fraction of the energy flowing around this storm. Even an hour’s energy from this storm would drive the USA for a long time.

I haven’t much of an idea what he is saying, but it is true that hurricanes release a large amount of energy, in the form of latent heat release. Water vapor condenses into water (maybe some ice), and heat is released. What is the point though? Your garden variety mid-latitude cyclone releases far more energy (they are much larger than hurricanes) in this same way. Hurricanes help transport heat from the low latitudes to the polar latitudes. They are necessary.

Just because a hurricane releases huge amounts of energy (no one disagrees with that), does not mean that they are electrical.

If this does not suffice, please explain your arguments in clear, concise sentences. They will be a lot easier to discuss rather than copy/pasting some alternative science mumbo-jumbo.

[Viscera]

To clarify, hurricanes are somewhat electrical, as there can be lightning. However they are not as electrical as your typical thunderstorm complex on the Great Plains pretty much every day of the summer.