Elia *Contemptible Coward* Kazan is dead at 94

The HUAC hearings weren’t like the Salem witchhunts for one very good reason. There were no real witches in Salem. But there WERE real communists in Hollywood. The people ratted out by Kazan really were members of the communist party. And contrary to what many people thought at the time, the CPUSA was completely run by the Soviet Union, a totalitarian dictatorship. The people who joined the communist party were guilty of helping an odious dictatorship.

Was this a crime? No, it was not, is not, and should not be a crime. But if I learn someone is a member of the Klan, should I feel bad about exposing them, simply because I was their friend, and at one time was a fellow member of the Klan? The appropriate thing to do would be to renounce and apologize for my membership in the Klan, and help to work against the Klan.

Shutting up, and letting my Klansmen ex-friends continue their hateful, despicable work would be immoral.

Now, please substitute “Communist” every time you see the word “Klan” in the above paragraphs.

At the time of his Academy Award I sided with Spielberg, who clapped for the artist and remained seated for the man. Now, I’m not so sure I’d remain seated (unlike that paragon of virtue, Nick Nolte .

As others have pointed out on this thread, while McCarthy was most certainly as evil an opportunist as Beria ever considered being, the tiger he was railing against wasn’t a paper one. When Kazan went before HUAC in 1952, Ethel and Julius Rosenberg and David Greenglass were already behind bars as Communist agents who had sold not just secrets to the Soviets but secrets directly related to the A-Bomb. (We now know that the Rosenberg ring didn’t supply any A-Bomb secrets the Soviets didn’t have, but not the point; we also know that they were guilty [except perhaps for Ethel] and that other info they supplied [the proximity fuse] did result in American deaths.) Rudolph Abel would continue operating an extremely successful cell in New York (complete with hollow nickels , microdots hidden under fake moles, and other things straight out of Ian Fleming) that translated many classified documents across the Urals, and the Communists abroad were overrunning Korea, Vietnam, rumbling in Cuba, and gaining particularly strong followings in New Orleans and Los Angeles. The threat was real , regardless of whether it was being used for politcal gain by McCarthy (the extent of whose lies was not known until much later).

Kazan had the choice of seeing his career destroyed, his fortune depleted, and never again being able to express himself artistically (there’s a very very good chance that had he acted “honorably” his death would have made no headlines this week as he’d be just another Larry Parks style “wasn’t he that guy who had a decent career who got blacklisted?”), or relaying factual information about people who belonged to an international organization that, again and again and again, really did the overthrow of America and the potential murder of millions of Americans with nuclear weaponry as an objective. I honestly don’t know which way I’d have jumped in the name of a “clean conscience” (ever try paying your rent with one of those, incidentally?) and neither do you.

RIP Elia.

How is it that we’ve come to equate the Klan with Communists? How about instead of substituting “Communist” every time the word “Klan” appears in this thread, we substitute “pagan” or “Jew” or “Republican”?

You know something? People did practice paganism in Colonial America just as people were and are Communists in modern America. Those who participated in both the witch hunt and the Communist hunt should be ashamed of themselves. Especially if they gave up friends and neighbors just to save their own asses.

Then they should have applauded Kazan’s work, not him himself.

I am not defending or condemning either one. I am saying that both were assholes. However, I think what Kazan did pales in comparison to what Polanski did-yet who of the two is more reviled?

I think both are/were talented filmmakers. I also think they both were jackasses. However, I think what Polanski did was more disgusting, more criminal than what Kazan did.

biggirl-

Because to be a Jew or a pagan or a republican is not despicable;

being a communist was, and still is!

Maybe so, but it’s not illegal. One is allowed to believe in it.

Just as being a Klansmen is not illegal, in and of itself.

BwanaBob, being a Communist is not despicable. Or it isn’t any more despicable than being a Democrat or a Republican or a Green Party member.
It is a political affiliation and nothing more.

Biggirl, I have to disagree. The Democrats, the Republicans, or the Greens never did anything like the Cultural Revolution, the Stalinist Purges, the Killing Fields of Kampuchea, the Ukranian Famines, or any of the other deaths that have been committed by Communist organizations.

I don’t really think there’s any point in arguing with BwanaBob on this point; trivial points like the fact that political speech is protected (it’s perhaps THE most protected of all types of speech) apparent don’t factor in.

So instead he just visited that fate on others. I’m not saying I would have had the courage to make a different choice, but that doesn’t mean I have to respect the choice he made. And I don’t. I hope he rests in peace. I do not admire him.

But — did his testimony actually destroy anyone’s careers? Does anyone here even recall exactly who (names) he spoke about in his testimony? And if and how those persons’ careers were hurt?

I think a lot, if not all of us, are assuming without actually knowing.

Yes, political speech is protected. And again, as I’ve said in every post so far, it was not, is not, and should not be a crime to be a member of the communist party, or to espouse communist viewpoints.

But I think we’ve got a funny idea from Hollywood about what the HUAC hearings were all about. We’ve got the idea that people were going to jail for being communists, or being accused of being communists when they weren’t communists, or that the government forced the movie studios not to hire communists.

The truth is, no one was sent to jail for being a member of the communist party. The people who went to jail went to jail for contempt of congress, that is, they refused to answer questions about their membership in the communist party, and the membership of other people in the communist party. No one was accused by HUAC of being a communist except people who actually were communists, nor were people pressured to lie about whether people where communist party members. They were pressured to tell the truth. And the government didn’t blacklist the communists, the STUDIOS did, because they didn’t want to be associated with communism…not because they were afraid of the government, but because they were afraid of the public. They thought (and probably rightly) that people wouldn’t go to see productions by communists, just like today most people wouldn’t go to see productions by open racists.

And yes, there might have been pagans in colonial america. Or maybe not, but let’s stipulate it. But the witchhunts weren’t about finding real pagans and burning them. The vast vast majority of people persecuted during the witchhunts were not pagans, they were innocent of the non-crime of being pagans. The people persecuted during the Red Scare ACTUALLY WERE communists. Should they have been persecuted? See my first paragraph.

However, just because it wasn’t, isn’t and shouldn’t be illegal to hold certain political, economic, or racial views, that doesn’t mean that companies (especially entertainment companies) are obligated to employ people with odious political affiliations. OK, I understand that some people don’t consider communism as odious as the Klan. You don’t have to agree. But surely you agree that no one is obligated to employ a Klansman, or to refrain from calling a Klansman names, or to protect a Klansman from the disgust of others, or to keep former associates Klan membership secret.

If you can discriminate against Klansmen, who inarguably hold odious political views, then you can discriminate against Communist who arguably hold odious personal views. If you can’t discriminate against Communists, then you wouldn’t be able to discriminate against Klansmen. The point is not neccesarily that Communists are are bad as the Klan, although I beleive they are. The point is that people are free to make moral judgements about the political views of others. People are free to espouse questionable, even heinous political views, and we are likewise free to scorn, mock, and berate them for their pathetic vicious fantasies.

If being a communist was just like being a democrat or republican or libertarian, then why would anyone be under a moral obligation to keep that information secret? Is it, or is it not true that the communist party of the USA was run by and for the Soviet Union? Is it, or is it not true that many communist party members were spies for the Soviet Union? Is it, or is it not true that if the communists had their way, we’d all be slaves in some gulag right now instead of arguing whether to applaud when some ancient film-maker gets an award? Is it, or is it not true that the Soviet Union was a slave state that murdered as many of its own citizens as Nazi Germany?

I think (sorry, no cite) that he named Preston Sturges.

In the 1930s, Preston Sturges was a successful Hollywood screenwriter from a priviledged background; Elia Kazan was working in leftist theater groups in New York. I don’t see how they would have even known each other. A Web search produces nothing associating Sturges with Communism or leftist political associations.

In his 1952 HUAC testimony, Kazan gave the names of the eight other members of his Communist Party cell in the Group Theater in the 1930s, including noted playwright Clifford Odets (whom Kazan asked beforehand, and who subsequently named names himself to the committee), and several actors who were by then long forgotten.

The other fellow Communist Party members from the Group Theatre whom Kazan named in 1952:

• Lewis Leverett, obscure stage actor whose only screen credits were two small parts in Elia Kazan movies in 1947. Hadn’t worked on Broadway since 1935.

• J. Edward Bromberg, an actor who was already dead when Kazan testified.

• Morris Carnovsky, stage and screen character actor who was already blacklisted from films and television after refusing to cooperate with the HUAC in 1950.

• Phoebe Brand, an actress with no screen credits before or after Kazan’s testimony. Hadn’t worked on Broadway since 1939. Wife of Morris Carnovsky.

• Paula Miller Strasberg, former stage actress turned acting coach and wife of Lee Strasberg; together they ran New York’s prestigious Actors Studio in the 1950s and 1960s. No screen credits before or after Kazan’s testimony.

• Art Smith, actor; blacklisted by Hollywood, continued to work on Broadway (e.g., West Side Story) in the 1950s.

• Tony Kraber, New York stage actor and stage manager with no screen credits before or after Kazan’s testimony; continued to work in the 1950s, appearing in two Broadway plays within months of Kazan’s testimony.

Oh. Okay then.

I consider communism to be like NAMBLA. Both are protected speech, but both are to be watched with sharp eyes.

What the…are you serious?

Take it to Great Debates, already!

Sorry but, are you on fucking crack. I don’t agree with communism but there is no way you can compare it to NAMBLA.

I don’t think it was a direct comparison. Just a statement that , while NAMBLA is as odious to most of us as communism was in the 50’s, both should be protected by the Constitution. A debate in GD might be a good idea, but it’s probably been done, and the hamsters are taxed to death lately. Anyway, I don’t think BwanaBob was saying that communists are the same as pedophiles.