In this thread here about Elia Kazan, we were discussing whether or not he was a contemptible coward (my vote is Yes) and many Dopers made the point that those he outed really were Communists. And since, as we all know, American Communists are comparible to Nazis, The Klan and NAMBLA this should be perfectly fine.
Look, I’m a born and bred Capitalist. I like my form of government even with all its flaws but this does not mean that American Communists are eeeeevvviiiillllllll cloven-hooved baby rapists.
With all of the demonizing going around between the different parties in our own democratic system, I shouldn’t be surprised by this. I guess I’m not. Surprised, that is. What surprises me is how much head-nodding the bystanders do. Ayeup, Communists. Not illegal, but, hey-- we tolerate the KKK so there you go.
I’m a Socialist, if that counts for anything. I am not really rich enough to be a Communist or a Marxist (though most people I know can’t tell the difference anyway).
I am so sick and tired of people knocking the Klan. For fuck’s sake, people! The Klan does so much for so many. They give a disenfranchised segment of the population a glimmer of hope in an otherwise bleak world.
So, say what you want about Communists and NAMBLA but leave the Klan out of it!
Other than that, fine rant, Biggirl. Communists are pretty much harmless.
Well, the whole point of the hearings was to investigate Communism in the motion picture industry, and to what extent fims had pro-Communist or pro-Soviet bias. So, it sort of is a good thing that the people he named were actually Communists.
More generally, why is there the general assumption that the hearings were a bad thing? Congress holds hearings on all sorts of things, and it’s probably not that inappropriate to hold a hearing to find out to what extent an industry with as much influence over popular opinion as the film industry is influenced by an enemy ideology.
For the record, I was born and raised in a communist country, and if ever those bastards gain any sort of foot hold in this country I am getting out, out, out. I’m not giving them the chance to one day close the border and say, “You want to leave this workers paradise? We’re sorry, but you can’t do that.”
Am I paranoid? Absolutely. Do I have reason to be? You bet. Did I just read this thread? Without a doubt.
I am so sick and tired of people knocking NAMBLA. For fuck’s sake, people! NAMBLA does so much for so many. They give a disenfranchised segment of the population a glimmer of hope in an otherwise bleak world.
So, say what you want about Communists and the Klan but leave NAMBVLA out of it!
I’m not speaking about The House Un-American Hearings. I’m talking about saying things like “. . . the film industry is influenced by an enemy ideology” with a straight face. Mayhaps we should start searching out any Monarchists in the computer industry. And let’s not forget to keep an eye on all those Libertarians. They’re really bad because the mix both Communism and Monarchy all together in a really weird way so that property owners actually become Kings. Oh, watch out-- there’s a Socialist in this very thread!!!
I am so sick and tired of people knocking the Communists. For fuck’s sake, people! The communists do so much for so many. They give a disenfranchised segment of the population a glimmer of hope in an otherwise bleak world.
So, say what you want about the Klan and NAMBLA but leave the communists out of it!
Other than that, fine rant, Biggirl. Communists are pretty much harmless.
What annoys the crap out of me is the importance people place on the politics and morals of artists.
Elia Kazan and Roman Polanski are two of the BEST FREAKIN’ DIRECTORS EVER TO WALK THE EARTH!!!
Who CARES if they named names or slept with someone underage (although that is a whole 'nother thread)?
He did the things he did for a reason, and it seemed like the best thing for him to do at the time, and nothing can change that. Hindsight is 20/20. Go watch On the Waterfront.
People in that thread were arguing that Hollywood was influenced by communists when Kazan did what he did, not today. During the 1940’s and '50’s communism as an ideology, movement, and national ideology was not weak like it is today. So mocking them because American communists today are marginal, at best, doesn’t make any sense to me.
Well, like Zoff said, if our primary international enemy was a Monarchy, and we had reason to think that that country was financing and directing the activities of Monarchist groups in this country with the goal of strengthening that country at our expense, we probably would be concerned about Monarchists in the computer industry.
Why? The concern should have been for spies and those breaking the law. As now, the concern should be for people breaking the law and not who is and is not in a political party you do not like.
Do you know who was acting “Unamerican” in the '50’s? The House UnAmerican Committe, that’s who. Do you know who still acting “Un-American”? Those who are still demonizing the American Communists.
And I wasn’t defending the HUAC, which I agree went waaay overboard. I was merely pointing out that making fun of somebody because communism is weak today doesn’t make sense when their comments were made in the context of when communism wasn’t so weak.
OK, now I agree: arrest spies. Communists that share their wealth with me are OK.
The idea that Communists in the US are historically harmless I don’t think is borne out. But, as always, you don’t arrest someone for an ideology, personal values in art, or the like. You do take note when they buy a lot of fertilizer or something.
Zoff, statements like the one Biggirl quoted are stupid under any context. It’s fucking Hollywood. Only someone who was exceptionally shallow would honestly be concerned about the political leanings of movie stars. Hunky McLead didn’t join the Communist party to overthrow America, he joined it because he’s a twit who thought he could meet girls with loose morals at party meetings. Leaving aside the human aspect entirely, the HUAC witchhunts were still an obscene waste of time and money on an utterly trivial issue. Even if the American Communist Party was a legitimate threat to the public good, which I honestly doubt, they should have been more concerned with Communists in the armed forces or government. But, of course, that assumes that McCarthy was more concerned with protecting the country than he was with getting his face in the papers as much as possible.
You might be right. But it doesn’t matter. It looks to me like Biggirl was mocking them because communists are currently powerless (e.g., comparing them to Monarchists.) But at the time Kazan testified, communism clearly wasn’t an impotent force like Monarchism.
I actually agree with you that HUAC was stupid. But ripping comments out of context to pit somebody is a waste of time as well.
Socialists have long been a cancer on American society.
Evil ideological laws against child labour, standardized eight-hour days, the concept of a minimum allowable wage, and regulation to protect the health and safety of workers: Honest capitalists have had to suffer all of these things due to the agitations of damned bolshy labour activists with their dirty socialist ideologies. It’s an outrage.
